You can't really fall back on realism as your argument when shooting off caps while a cold wet unshot duck is beinf catapulted into the field for your dog is the paradigm your dealing with. As long as its not real- and the dog is there for the birds not the gun.... And I'm with her... We will go where the warm juicy ones are.
That was my point neither one is real. If you just want to shoot warm bleeding birds, save your hunt test money and buy 15 birds and shoot them yourself. We run the games for fun and to test how we have done teaching our dogs the concepts of hunting and retrieving. I think hrc does that better on the first part anyway....ymmv. I still run both because I like doing it but actual hunting still tells me more about where my dog is than either venue.
These threads always seem toend up this way about Flyers, vs gassed birds, real guns Vs sticks....gets old!
I will say this:
One venue states "Marking is of primary importance"... the other venues rule book doesnt say that.
Their tests ,,(the one whose philosophy is that Marking is of primary importance,)tend to be more conceptual in nature, and test trained responses in the upper levels. While you can handle, most know the magic number allowed..
The other venue, that doesn't state in its rule that Marking is of primary importance, evaluates Retrievers on qualities desirable in a Hunting Retriever...
I believe their tests tend to be less conceptual in nature,, and focus more on a evaluating a dog to be a desirable hunting companion..
Their rule book states that judges should score a dog lower on poor marking REPEATED handling on marks,.Leaving the hunt area, disturbing to much cover.. They score the dog LOWER!! Poor Marking in and of itself,(unless the dog Fails to find the bird, throwing an object to help the dog find a bird, or excessive (Subjective) handling), isnt a reason to fail the dog. It can contribute to the overall evaluation of that retriever,, but at the end of the day that venues Judges are instructed to ask themselves if "they would Hunt with this dog" they look at the overall picture.. It can tend to be very subjective..
In my opinion,, two very different philosophy..
Both great organizations,,and Both fun to run..with good people to be around..
these threads always end up focusing on the birds.... gassed vs live flying vs dead flying,, but really,, when most of us attend club training days,, how many of those days are spent throwing Plastic??
Last edited by MooseGooser; 05-09-2014 at 10:37 AM.
It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH (Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)
My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"
Response to #83
So if I read that right you just said "if you want live fliers don't run tests"????
Well. I hunt to hunt, I test to test. I train because that's what you do if you like hunting and testing.
I see no reason why we should automatically be allowed to ADVANCE if we failed to EARN a PASS at a TEST.
So- with the original topic in mind- ie how to help HRC numbers- is your position that NOT shooting fliers is the answer- or part of it? I see a few people who have said they would like to see it- and I see a few others who have seen an done way more than me who are saying "when we have seen it done, it was favorably recieved."
If there was an HRC test in my town- ie 10 minutes away- that couldn't legally shoot a flier I would definitely go. If it was 15 minutes away- where the flier wouldn't be a problem- I'd blow it off.
Last edited by jhnnythndr; 05-09-2014 at 10:37 AM.
HRCH Mt. Holly "SKyler" Blue SH 500 HRC pts. club
HRCH Mt. Holly Thunder and Lightning "Storm" MH 500 pts. club, Grand pass
well... on the bright side we won't ever have to discuss it face to face, at one of your HRC events, so your exposure to the argument and its foolishness will be low.
I'm no HRC member, and certainly have no drum to beat about how or why yall should conduct your tests- and I certainly can appreciate tradition and being reticent about going against it. I have no idea who, if anyone, HRC is trying to draw, who the core constituency is or anything else regarding demographics, all I am sure of at this point is that it isn't me.
so to the couple people who would like to see increased particpation at HRC events, who are you trying to bring out?
Last edited by jhnnythndr; 05-09-2014 at 10:50 PM.
As far as who HRC is trying to attract. The answer is in the motto "by hunters, for hunters".
In many areas HRC is experiencing the same problem as AKC. If you procrastinate the upper level is full & you can't get in to run the test. In both venues some areas have lightly attended tests. As a community we should try to attend these low entry tests because we all lose when a club folds.