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Thread: HRC Hunt Test Low Entries???

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Gassner View Post
    You could care less, but what about your dog? Dogs treat flyers differently. What about getting dogs ready for hunting season? I train FOR hunting season, not during it.
    Well then you better get real gun and shoot it because I've never hunted with a group of guys where I sat 100 yards away and watched the fellas have all the fun shooting the birds. I hunt because I like hunting, I hunt birds because I like the teamwork between me and my dog. I'd spend most of my time big game hunting if didn't. My 2 year old dog got more exposure to shot birds in one week of his first dove season than he will get in a lifetime of hunt tests. That being said......if you train for hunting I've never seen an akc test that remotely resembled an actual hunt......I've at least seen a few hrc tests that were in the ballpark. Ive got a lot more of my limited experience in tests in hrc though. Having someone 100 yards away from me shoot a bird with a dog at my side doesn't resemble any of the multiple hundreds of days I've spent hunting though. I like both venues and a shot flyer the dog loves but he loves running around the park too. What I like is paying my money and getting to run the whole test whether I passed or not. I much prefer that to one shot flyer and being sent home after the first series.

  2. #82
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    You can't really fall back on realism as your argument when shooting off caps while a cold wet unshot duck is beinf catapulted into the field for your dog is the paradigm your dealing with. As long as its not real- and the dog is there for the birds not the gun.... And I'm with her... We will go where the warm juicy ones are.

  3. #83
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    That was my point neither one is real. If you just want to shoot warm bleeding birds, save your hunt test money and buy 15 birds and shoot them yourself. We run the games for fun and to test how we have done teaching our dogs the concepts of hunting and retrieving. I think hrc does that better on the first part anyway....ymmv. I still run both because I like doing it but actual hunting still tells me more about where my dog is than either venue.

  4. #84
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    These threads always seem toend up this way about Flyers, vs gassed birds, real guns Vs sticks....gets old!

    But,,

    I will say this:

    One venue states "Marking is of primary importance"... the other venues rule book doesnt say that.

    Their tests ,,(the one whose philosophy is that Marking is of primary importance,)tend to be more conceptual in nature, and test trained responses in the upper levels. While you can handle, most know the magic number allowed..

    The other venue, that doesn't state in its rule that Marking is of primary importance, evaluates Retrievers on qualities desirable in a Hunting Retriever...
    I believe their tests tend to be less conceptual in nature,, and focus more on a evaluating a dog to be a desirable hunting companion..
    Their rule book states that judges should score a dog lower on poor marking REPEATED handling on marks,.Leaving the hunt area, disturbing to much cover.. They score the dog LOWER!! Poor Marking in and of itself,(unless the dog Fails to find the bird, throwing an object to help the dog find a bird, or excessive (Subjective) handling), isnt a reason to fail the dog. It can contribute to the overall evaluation of that retriever,, but at the end of the day that venues Judges are instructed to ask themselves if "they would Hunt with this dog" they look at the overall picture.. It can tend to be very subjective..

    In my opinion,, two very different philosophy..

    Both great organizations,,and Both fun to run..with good people to be around..


    these threads always end up focusing on the birds.... gassed vs live flying vs dead flying,, but really,, when most of us attend club training days,, how many of those days are spent throwing Plastic??
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 05-09-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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  5. #85
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    Response to #83

    So if I read that right you just said "if you want live fliers don't run tests"????

    Well. I hunt to hunt, I test to test. I train because that's what you do if you like hunting and testing.

    I see no reason why we should automatically be allowed to ADVANCE if we failed to EARN a PASS at a TEST.


    So- with the original topic in mind- ie how to help HRC numbers- is your position that NOT shooting fliers is the answer- or part of it? I see a few people who have said they would like to see it- and I see a few others who have seen an done way more than me who are saying "when we have seen it done, it was favorably recieved."

    If there was an HRC test in my town- ie 10 minutes away- that couldn't legally shoot a flier I would definitely go. If it was 15 minutes away- where the flier wouldn't be a problem- I'd blow it off.
    Last edited by jhnnythndr; 05-09-2014 at 09:37 AM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhnnythndr View Post
    Response to #83

    So if I read that right you just said "if you want live fliers don't run tests"????

    Well. I hunt to hunt, I test to test. I train because that's what you do if you like hunting and testing.

    I see no reason why we should automatically be allowed to ADVANCE if we failed to EARN a PASS at a TEST.


    So- with the original topic in mind- ie how to help HRC numbers- is your position that NOT shooting fliers is the answer- or part of it? I see a few people who have said they would like to see it- and I see a few others who have seen an done way more than me who are saying "when we have seen it done, it was favorably recieved."

    If there was an HRC test in my town- ie 10 minutes away- that couldn't legally shoot a flier I would definitely go. If it was 15 minutes away- where the flier wouldn't be a problem- I'd blow it off.

    I have no idea how to attract more to hrc. All I'm saying is flyer or no flyer doesn't make a whit of difference to me.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Dwayne Padgett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhnnythndr View Post
    You can't really fall back on realism as your argument when shooting off caps while a cold wet unshot duck is beinf catapulted into the field for your dog is the paradigm your dealing with. As long as its not real- and the dog is there for the birds not the gun.... And I'm with her... We will go where the warm juicy ones are.
    You get ONE flyer what about the other cold wet unshot ones ? That's the dumbest argument I've heard yet.
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  8. #88
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    well... on the bright side we won't ever have to discuss it face to face, at one of your HRC events, so your exposure to the argument and its foolishness will be low.


    I'm no HRC member, and certainly have no drum to beat about how or why yall should conduct your tests- and I certainly can appreciate tradition and being reticent about going against it. I have no idea who, if anyone, HRC is trying to draw, who the core constituency is or anything else regarding demographics, all I am sure of at this point is that it isn't me.


    so to the couple people who would like to see increased particpation at HRC events, who are you trying to bring out?
    Last edited by jhnnythndr; 05-09-2014 at 09:50 PM.

  9. #89
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    As far as who HRC is trying to attract. The answer is in the motto "by hunters, for hunters".

    In many areas HRC is experiencing the same problem as AKC. If you procrastinate the upper level is full & you can't get in to run the test. In both venues some areas have lightly attended tests. As a community we should try to attend these low entry tests because we all lose when a club folds.
    Mark Land

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Oak Retrievers View Post
    After this weekend this is what I think.
    HRC needs to get back to the grass roots of their slogan "Conceived by Hunters For hunters". It seems that the amateur gets judged harder than the pro!! I say this as a Pro. And the standard isn't the standard that it was 5 years ago. I will say this that with the reputation that HRC is getting on the east coast or mid atlantic region it will be next to impossible to have a Successful HRC event. The key to success is interested members and entries. If the intreset in HRC goes down because the test are impossible to pass with and average dog then we have lost all hope in getting an established hunt test in the state of Virginia. We already have 3 clubs in a two hour window that struggle with entries. You know maybe judging with a slightly less sharp pencil wouldn't be a bad thing. Our Started and Seasoned flights were perfect had a few fail but there was no doubt. Our Finished has a pass rate of 9% on Sunday. Now were the dogs that bad or were the judges that tough or Maybe the 10 dogs that entered weren't ready even tough (6 were MH or had MH passes).

    So basically if we weed out the amateur and make it an unpleasurable experience why in the world would he or she pay 130 for entries plus give up a weekend and pay 200+ for expenses.
    Right on, could not agree more.
    JT

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