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Thread: Distances for marks and blinds

  1. #1
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    Default Distances for marks and blinds

    I have a general question about the rules regarding distances to a mark or blind in hunt tests. HRC and AKC have rules that stipulate a mark and/or blind must be under a certain number of yards. My question is, is the distance measured by ground distance covered or direct line (ie down a hill, up a hill, and down another hill = 105 yards versus a range finder direct line = 85 yards)? It is common for a good test to incorporate terrain suchs as hills, gulleys, side hills etc that change the true ground distance between the line and the mark/blind. Just curious.
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    Pete,

    Generally it is X number of yards on the ground depending on what stake you are running. This number can be fudged sometimes to accommodate a piece of cover, point, or tree line into the blind or marking setup.

    RD
    Owasso, Ok
    Official Launcher of the 2005, 2006,2007,2008,2009 & 2010 HRC Fall & Spring Grand!

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    I thought that was the case but the more tests I attend, the more judges at all stakes using their "seasoned eye" to guestimate or using a range finder and relying on that alone instead of physically walking it off. This means there may potentially be tests that are out of regulation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Balzer View Post
    I thought that was the case but the more tests I attend, the more judges at all stakes using their "seasoned eye" to guestimate or using a range finder and relying on that alone instead of physically walking it off. This means there may potentially be tests that are out of regulation.
    I don't know much about hunt tests. But I have read the rules before. On distances the rule book says:

    Section 1. Test distances on land and water in Junior and Senior level tests should not normally exceed 100 yards. Test distances on land and water in Master level tests should not normally exceed 150 yards. Clubs may not state in the event premium that retrieves may be in excess of the “should not normally exceed” clause.
    I have always interpreted the phrase "should not normally" as allowing the judge leeway. If on the other hand it said "shall not," then I think the phrase "out of regulation" might apply better.

    I would think that most test grounds would present factors placed such that having a little leeway will enable a judge to set up a better test than otherwise. I also think that within reason, worrying about a little bit of distance here or there is a view that really short changes fido's abilities.

    I really don't understand why the verbiage was included that "clubs may not state in the event premium..." Can anyone enlighten me on that???
    Last edited by Buzz; 05-05-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I will take a range finder distance. A typical step is 30" not a yard.
    Most people when they step off marks count each step as a yard. It is not a precise measurement. Either way is close enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I don't know much about hunt tests. But I have read the rules before. On distances the rule book says:



    I have always interpreted the phrase "should not normally" as allowing the judge leeway. If on the other hand it said "shall not," then I think the phrase "out of regulation" might apply better.

    I would think that most test grounds would present factors placed such that having a little leeway will enable a judge to set up a better test than otherwise. I also think that within reason, worrying about a little bit of distance here or there is a view that really short changes fido's abilities.

    I really don't understand why the verbiage was included that "clubs may not state in the event premium..." Can anyone enlighten me on that???
    Buzz,

    Not saying that a 99 yard blind is fair and 101 yard blind isn't, but when a test is set-up at the maximum and a judge does not walk the distance and get a better understand it is possibly that a blind that they thought was 95 (range finder) and when they walk it they get 115 the test should probably be changed.

    Also HRC is a little more black and white about it. This is for finished, but seasoned and started are also very clear.

    TEST RULESI.
    The maximum land test distance will not exceedone hundred-fifty (150) yards, but may be shorter. Themaximum water test distance will not exceed one hundredtwenty-five (125) yards, but may be shorter. Theblind retrieve maximum test distance will not exceed one
    hundred (100) yards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunners Up View Post
    Pete,

    Generally it is X number of yards on the ground depending on what stake you are running. This number can be fudged sometimes to accommodate a piece of cover, point, or tree line into the blind or marking setup.

    RD
    Owasso, Ok
    RD,

    Just saw you were also in Owasso. Maybe we should get together and do some training!!!
    Owned by GMPR HR UH Blackjack's Gen. Stonewall Jackson JH

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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Balzer View Post
    Not saying that a 99 yard blind is fair and 101 yard blind isn't, but when a test is set-up at the maximum and a judge does not walk the distance and get a better understand it is possibly that a blind that they thought was 95 (range finder) and when they walk it they get 115 the test should probably be changed.
    Back in the day we used to have a saying about "NAHRA Yards" that were longer than regular yards. Range finder, walking or anything short of getting a survey crew out there is going to be a rough guesstimate, but it is all good enough. It doesn't make that much difference at HT differences.

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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Balzer View Post
    ..... My question is, is the distance measured by ground distance covered or direct line.....

    most often the "Exact" measure is a range finder held in the gallery by somebody who just crashed and burned and is doing the ruff draft of the monday morning RTF post.
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    Ken,

    Most of the time you would be correct, but not this time. My last 3 hunt tests (3 different venues) attended were an APLA master test, passed on Sunday, failed on Saturday (caught a bird in the upland = instant DQ), Senior AKC test in Kansas (passed Sat, scratched myself Sunday due to weather), HRC finished test passed on Sat and picked my own dog up on Sun after running the marks in the 2nd series due to line manners that I didn't want to encourage.

    My question was more derived from the curiousity and that I intend to give back to the sport by becoming a judge one day and wanted to understand why more judges weren't walking to their blinds or marks (obviously when possible, don't expect them to walk on water). It appeared lazy.
    Owned by GMPR HR UH Blackjack's Gen. Stonewall Jackson JH

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