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Thread: "Swim-By" flaring on send problem

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Default "Swim-By" flaring on send problem

    Don't make fun of my kids crayon drawing ! I am about as good of artist as I am dog trainer !!

    My 16 month BLF has been through FF,FTP,T,TT and went to pattern blind field until water warmed enough for swim-by ! We went through 5 days of water force following Smartwork's, and she showed great momentum, and caught on real quick to what was expected, and how to turn off the pressure.

    We started Swim-by 6 days ago as of today, and have been working on establishing the pile, keeping attitude and momentum up, and started teaching the water whistle sit yesterday, with plenty of sends to the back pile ! I have been keeping her attitude up by sending to pile 3 or 4 times, and then throwing her a fun bumper online to pile to keep her from getting sour ( She struggled with attitude during T work, So I work hard on keeping her attitude up during drill work).

    On day 3 of swim-by she has started an issue that pops up on every 4 to 6 sends, were she wants to flair off line as soon as she is sent ! I am talking she flairs as soon as her butt is 2 or 3 yards past me and takes a hard right (Left side heeling dog) She's not showing signs of giving me a no-go, and she gets in the water every time, She takes this hard right gets in the water, and acts either nervous, or starts playing in the water.

    My solution so far that seems to help, is whistle stop her, call her back to heel, then heel forward on line with a Nick "heel "Nick" then re-send, she will then enter the water on a straight line.

    My question is am I handling this situation correctly, or should I whistle stop her and use attrition and handle her back on line ? Also is there something I have done that has caused this problem ? I am very careful with collar pressure, and have been mixing in remote front sit position sends, and side sends equally.
    I am sending her from approx. 5 yards from waters edge.

    She has actually done the same thing a couple of times on the pattern blind field, but was corrected easily with a whistle stop, and then a angle back cast to the blind.

    Not sure what has caused this, and want to learn from my mistakes, and learn to correct this ! Any advice ????

    Below is my attempt to draw a example of what she is doing !

    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  2. #2
    Senior Member born2retrieve's Avatar
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    Sounds like you created hot spots. Lay off the pressure

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    I have layed off pressure, other than the nick heel nick on line, But I will keep your advice in mind ! Thanks
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Willie Alderson's Avatar
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    Have you done any remote sends? Or has it been all from your side? I agree with post above, looks like she's avoiding the hot spots. Move up to simplify where she cannot flare, and limit sends with pressure. More freebies perhaps?
    ~Willie Alderson

    "Drake" Willey's Drake Seeker Supreme MH

    "Roxi" Alder Creeks Riparian Roxi

  5. #5
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    You say that you have started swim by. Have you started giving over casts? By your description I don't think you have but just want to make sure.

    My advice would be not to handle out of a poor initial line. You probably don't want to hear it but your problem is not a hot spot, it is not enough pressure. It sounds like you need to revisit water force as a situational thing when this pops up. A dog that is truly water forced is not going to jack around at the waters edge. Next session give the benefit of the doubt. When this pops up call back with "no here". Resend and if it happens again call back and go into a water force session. 1 or 2 times is all it will take.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    No have not started giving overs yet ! Just establishing the pile and working on going straight, have started working in 2 to 3 whistle sits per session just to get water treading established.
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Did you water force this dog prior to starting swim-by?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

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  8. #8
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Does anybody even READ the OP before giving opinions? In plain English he stated that yes he does mix in remote sends, yes he did water force, and has tried to be judicious with the collar! I don't know the answer for this particular dog and doubt if any of you do either. At least do the courtesy of reading the post. My first idea. Having a dog with similar tendencies, is to lay off force and find a way to get the dog moving forward again via a helper hey-heying or very visible pile without side pile distractions. Good luck!
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    great drawing! Love it.
    dog is trying to run 'round, smart dog!
    Move up, green stick man too far from water edge.
    get wet! some dogs, the most easy "Trick" (ain't it easy to trick dogs?) is to don the chest waders or daisy duke's and wade in with dog about trouser pocket deep and toss a bumper to your back pile and send. Send more than once. Then start to back up. I do not think you made a hot spot nore are too hard. I think by drawing your dog is just trying to run around. And you can get hard very easy right now, or move up and trick him.
    Oh, slip in some "good dawgs", and have fun.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  10. #10
    Senior Member born2retrieve's Avatar
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    I'm not going to be a internet trainer. If the dog is flaring it more than likely is do to pressure and does not understand the pressure. If u want to call me feel free. I'll help u as much as u want. If u don't feel I have the pedigree to give u what u need than that is fine also.

    Greg
    817-694-5480

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