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Thread: Proven producer vs Hot competitor?

  1. #21
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I have always wondered what it was about Tiger that made him such a popular stud. There were a couple of females that he really clicked with. He was only QAA, but he must have had plenty of all-age points but just didn't title? I have a Chopper son that is completely clean who is QAA that I bred once to a master hunter. All the dogs but one went to hunting homes. One went to a field trial amateur. The pup ages out of derby this summer but probably won't run any. He went out on a qual water blind last weekend. Really nice dog. I wish I hadn't sold him... I took him for the stud fee and decided I had enough dogs around already.
    according to the records Tiger had 7 Open pts and 2 Amateur pts...he was also a full brother to Creek Robber..we were fortunate to have a Tiger sired pup and she was a very nice dog that just got the short end of the stick when it came to training time,Clint got a placement in a Derby and one in a Qual in just a handful of trials, our biggest regret is that we spayed her at a young age, lost her two years ago to the big C....straightest lining dog in the house
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fetchtx View Post
    Years ago a pro had a very nice BLM with 33 open seconds, never titled, never sired a litter. I was surprised that someone never used him, great pedigree and all the health clearances required. Part of the problem was he was owned by someone who had no use for bothering with breeding
    Name the beast, please.
    I like others find this hard to believe

  3. #23
    Senior Member tshuntin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Maddox View Post
    Am I noticing a trend in the demand for competitive puppies swinging towards litters sired by the hot young FC/AFC studs that are winning on the circuits vs the proven producers?
    David, I don't think you are noticing a trend as much as, in my opinion, this is pretty much how it has been for the last several years I have been watching. The "flavor of the months" so to speak get a lot of hype and therefore action. We get excited about them and roll the dice. Plus there really are not that many truly proven studs out there.

    What makes a proven stud? There are lots if different classifications we could consider for that question.
    TRAVIS SKEEN

  4. #24
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Even though to breed to a proven male is one of the thing I look at, It's not first on my list. when I look at a breeding, first they must match.
    Every dog has their strengths and weaknesses. the dogs strengths, must match the bitches weaknesses. I must admit, I do look at other breeding's to see how the pups are doing and I need to see the dog run myself.

    Keith

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshuntin View Post
    David, I don't think you are noticing a trend as much as, in my opinion, this is pretty much how it has been for the last several years I have been watching. The "flavor of the months" so to speak get a lot of hype and therefore action. We get excited about them and roll the dice. Plus there really are not that many truly proven studs out there.

    What makes a proven stud? There are lots if different classifications we could consider for that question.
    Travis,
    Of course, anytime a male wins either one of the Nationals he becomes the flavor of the month. I too have noticed the move to the "hot prospects". In my opinion, the most obvious way to label a sire or dam as "proven" is when one has produced both multiple field trial and hunt test offspring. As far as there not being many proven sires alive, there are several with available semen. The process of AI is quite pricey. I just bred a very nice maiden bitch by way of AI to a select stud (deceased). Why? Because I felt the dog and bitch's personality, desire, and style would nick very well. Plus, Ive always wanted a pup by him out of my bitch. I considered going to one of his sons but decided on going to the "source". As of now, I'm elated with my choice. The next 4 or 5 years will be the determining factor of whether the breeding was successful.

    Nice comments everyone!!!
    Last edited by David Maddox; 05-09-2014 at 11:55 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I have always wondered what it was about Tiger that made him such a popular stud. There were a couple of females that he really clicked with. He was only QAA, but he must have had plenty of all-age points but just didn't title? I have a Chopper son that is completely clean who is QAA that I bred once to a master hunter. All the dogs but one went to hunting homes. One went to a field trial amateur. The pup ages out of derby this summer but probably won't run any. He went out on a qual water blind last weekend. Really nice dog. I wish I hadn't sold him... I took him for the stud fee and decided I had enough dogs around already.
    I bred my proven girl who was a senior hunter to an unproven stud and surprisingly many want to competative homes. Currently one is an FC/AFC, OBTCH/QAA/MH, MH/MNF, MHRCH, and a bunch of QAA dogs all in the same litter. I bred a granddaughter of the same girl had no titles (bad time in my life to train) to the same stud and only one pup went to a trial home and that dog was derby pointed with a qual 4th while still in derby and currently QAA amateur owner handled and trained - the rest are gun dogs. A lot has to do with titles on the girl as to what sort of homes they go to as well. Had I trained this girl I know she would have been awesome - she is so much like her grandma.
    Julie (High Voltage Retrievers) Life is to short to hunt with an ugly dog. Hunting is more fun with a good dog no matter how ugly it is.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Seems breeding trends Hot-young stud vs. proven producers go in cycles.

    Right now there seems to be several young dogs, making waves (people like shiny objects ), and several of the proven dogs are retiring, also getting a bit long in the tooth for natural breeding/switching to frozen AI (available stock becomes an issue). After a dog gets established as a producer; oftentimes convincing a stud owner to even do a breeding becomes a challenge, stud fees go up and owners get picky. Contrary-wise It's in the best interest of young studs owner to strike while his dog is hot; it's a gamble on which dogs will produce and you've got 4-6yrs. before the pups will be ready to show in the Upper-stakes. A young stud owner wants to establish his dog (they have a bunch of stock ); thus they usually offers lower stud fees, will do more breedings; and if a dog is hot people get interested in using untried dogs as studs.

    In a few years; some of the few hot-young dogs will become proven-or not; then we'll see a switch toward proven studs, until some new dogs start to make waves.
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