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Proven producer vs Hot competitor?

8K views 25 replies 20 participants last post by  Hunt'EmUp 
#1 · (Edited)
Am I noticing a trend in the demand for competitive puppies swinging towards litters sired by the hot young FC/AFC studs that are winning on the circuits vs the proven producers?
 
#2 ·
With unproven studs or proven also- I look at the quality of the parents, and the grandparents. Hopefully all 6 were outstanding dogs. Then I look at siblings. I want dogs who are strong performers with strong litter mates. Same with the parents- strong dogs from strong litters.

I am unlikely to breed to a stud who is the only dog who did anything in his litter, or who has parents who weren't from solid litters.
 
#3 ·
I agree. Nice response.
 
#6 ·
What makes you say this? I think the current trend in competitive dogs at least is proven producers or competitors that are have health clearances. I know some are looking for EIC clear, but there are also many breedings of EIC clear to carrier. This whole issue has been beat to death on RTF. Of course, its still the wild, wild west in many BY breedings where the owners don't give a hoot about any health clearances.
 
#5 ·
Aren't the hot young competitors of today the proven producers of tomorrow and vice versa?
 
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#15 ·
I guess some people would rather see another person take the risk with an unproven stud. Some people just like taking that chance and don't mind. Some times you win some times you lose. With a proven stud with a great production record your odds may be a little better.
 
#11 ·
Years ago a pro had a very nice BLM with 33 open seconds, never titled, never sired a litter. I was surprised that someone never used him, great pedigree and all the health clearances required. Part of the problem was he was owned by someone who had no use for bothering with breeding
 
#14 ·
Years ago a pro had a very nice BLM with 33 open seconds, never titled, never sired a litter. I was surprised that someone never used him, great pedigree and all the health clearances required. Part of the problem was he was owned by someone who had no use for bothering with breeding
That's a heart breaker. Second place is so close and very hard on its own, to miss by one place 33 times is unbelievable.
 
#13 ·
True that, but competitive/titled females arent bred to just any male either.
 
#16 ·
I've actually been in contact with a couple of A-listers that have both. They own both a proven producer and hot young competitors and claim that they are getting more calls for litters and upcoming litters by their young dogs. Not many calls for their proven studs.

This surprises me.
 
#18 ·
I have always wondered what it was about Tiger that made him such a popular stud. There were a couple of females that he really clicked with. He was only QAA, but he must have had plenty of all-age points but just didn't title? I have a Chopper son that is completely clean who is QAA that I bred once to a master hunter. All the dogs but one went to hunting homes. One went to a field trial amateur. The pup ages out of derby this summer but probably won't run any. He went out on a qual water blind last weekend. Really nice dog. I wish I hadn't sold him... I took him for the stud fee and decided I had enough dogs around already. :-x
 
#22 ·
David, I don't think you are noticing a trend as much as, in my opinion, this is pretty much how it has been for the last several years I have been watching. The "flavor of the months" so to speak get a lot of hype and therefore action. We get excited about them and roll the dice. Plus there really are not that many truly proven studs out there.

What makes a proven stud? There are lots if different classifications we could consider for that question.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Travis,
Of course, anytime a male wins either one of the Nationals he becomes the flavor of the month. I too have noticed the move to the "hot prospects". In my opinion, the most obvious way to label a sire or dam as "proven" is when one has produced both multiple field trial and hunt test offspring. As far as there not being many proven sires alive, there are several with available semen. The process of AI is quite pricey. I just bred a very nice maiden bitch by way of AI to a select stud (deceased). Why? Because I felt the dog and bitch's personality, desire, and style would nick very well. Plus, Ive always wanted a pup by him out of my bitch. I considered going to one of his sons but decided on going to the "source". As of now, I'm elated with my choice. The next 4 or 5 years will be the determining factor of whether the breeding was successful.

Nice comments everyone!!!
 
#23 ·
Even though to breed to a proven male is one of the thing I look at, It's not first on my list. when I look at a breeding, first they must match.
Every dog has their strengths and weaknesses. the dogs strengths, must match the bitches weaknesses. I must admit, I do look at other breeding's to see how the pups are doing and I need to see the dog run myself.

Keith
 
#26 ·
Seems breeding trends Hot-young stud vs. proven producers go in cycles.

Right now there seems to be several young dogs, making waves (people like shiny objects ;)), and several of the proven dogs are retiring, also getting a bit long in the tooth for natural breeding/switching to frozen AI (available stock becomes an issue). After a dog gets established as a producer; oftentimes convincing a stud owner to even do a breeding becomes a challenge, stud fees go up and owners get picky. Contrary-wise It's in the best interest of young studs owner to strike while his dog is hot; it's a gamble on which dogs will produce and you've got 4-6yrs. before the pups will be ready to show in the Upper-stakes. A young stud owner wants to establish his dog (they have a bunch of stock ;)); thus they usually offers lower stud fees, will do more breedings; and if a dog is hot people get interested in using untried dogs as studs.

In a few years; some of the few hot-young dogs will become proven-or not; then we'll see a switch toward proven studs, until some new dogs start to make waves.
 
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