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Thread: Pope Francis

  1. #21
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Trying to answer all of the questions above in one post:
    Buzz, I talked about the church volunteering to give up its tax-exempt status. Are all non-profits exempt from paying taxes? If not, then churches paying taxes is consistent with that. This Pope did choose less opulent living quarters than other Popes, but that doesn't mean that they aren't still very nice quarters. Bishops and cardinals live pretty well, too. Jesus and St. Francis did not live like these church leaders live today. I believe their message resonated with those who listened to them because they lived like those who were listening to them.

    The Pope has the same freedom of speech as anyone else, but I think there is a line between politics in religion. Is there any form of govt you know that believes in distribution of wealth from each according to his means & to each according to his need? Then the Pope is crossing into a political arena. I don't think that good can come of it. Islam acknowledges Jesus as a "great teacher, but that doesn't stop many of them from killing Christians ... because the words of Mohammed are considered more important than Jesus. So, if non-radical Muslims have high regard for Pope Francis, maybe some of them will speak up about the massacre of Christians taking place in their countries?

    Raised as an RC, I left, because I had trouble with papal infallability and also disagreed with the position on contraception. On that latter, the church at the local level, waffled on that as well, just not addressing the question of papal infallability. I believe in the Constitutional right of freedom of religion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with all of them; or agree with all their leaders.

    Franco, I have utmost respect for the charitable works of the Catholic Church; and other Christian charities. I just do not agree that the state-coerced charity is the same thing talked about in the Bible.

    Legitimate charity is from the ballot box: not sure individuals end up getting to say a lot about it that way. If a majority of the people don't support O-care (in which redistribution is involved), and it was made into law by the Senate gutting the text of a bill passed in the House that was totally unrelated to ACA, can we really say the ballot box had a lot to due with the end result? Did we vote for Obama phones? Did anyone ask us about that? Yes, I know, it was started by an R, but did we vote for it? Even the things we do vote for end up being bastardized by the bureaucracy.

    In fact, it appears that charity is more effectively administered by organizations closer to the situations that need improvement (both addressing the issues most needing improvement & in getting funds to the people who truly need them.) Perhaps Pope Francis has not seen enough of how much waste goes into the process of redistribution when it passes through the bureaucracy of the state.

    There is a very short book, written by a former priest, called "Joshua". It's just a short book, but explores how Jesus might appear in a more contemporary society. It's fictional, but very thought-provoking.

    The Pope has made game-changing decisions: The decision to endorse redistribution of wealth by the state? The two most notable countries, Russia and China, who have endorsed that as their MO have not been kind to the church in the process. Time will tell where this will lead.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Trying to answer all of the questions above in one post:
    Buzz, I talked about the church volunteering to give up its tax-exempt status. Are all non-profits exempt from paying taxes? If not, then churches paying taxes is consistent with that. This Pope did choose less opulent living quarters than other Popes, but that doesn't mean that they aren't still very nice quarters. Bishops and cardinals live pretty well, too. Jesus and St. Francis did not live like these church leaders live today. I believe their message resonated with those who listened to them because they lived like those who were listening to them.

    The Pope has the same freedom of speech as anyone else, but I think there is a line between politics in religion. Is there any form of govt you know that believes in distribution of wealth from each according to his means & to each according to his need? Then the Pope is crossing into a political arena. I don't think that good can come of it. Islam acknowledges Jesus as a "great teacher, but that doesn't stop many of them from killing Christians ... because the words of Mohammed are considered more important than Jesus. So, if non-radical Muslims have high regard for Pope Francis, maybe some of them will speak up about the massacre of Christians taking place in their countries?

    Raised as an RC, I left, because I had trouble with papal infallability and also disagreed with the position on contraception. On that latter, the church at the local level, waffled on that as well, just not addressing the question of papal infallability. I believe in the Constitutional right of freedom of religion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with all of them; or agree with all their leaders.

    Franco, I have utmost respect for the charitable works of the Catholic Church; and other Christian charities. I just do not agree that the state-coerced charity is the same thing talked about in the Bible.

    Legitimate charity is from the ballot box: not sure individuals end up getting to say a lot about it that way. If a majority of the people don't support O-care (in which redistribution is involved), and it was made into law by the Senate gutting the text of a bill passed in the House that was totally unrelated to ACA, can we really say the ballot box had a lot to due with the end result? Did we vote for Obama phones? Did anyone ask us about that? Yes, I know, it was started by an R, but did we vote for it? Even the things we do vote for end up being bastardized by the bureaucracy.

    In fact, it appears that charity is more effectively administered by organizations closer to the situations that need improvement (both addressing the issues most needing improvement & in getting funds to the people who truly need them.) Perhaps Pope Francis has not seen enough of how much waste goes into the process of redistribution when it passes through the bureaucracy of the state.

    There is a very short book, written by a former priest, called "Joshua". It's just a short book, but explores how Jesus might appear in a more contemporary society. It's fictional, but very thought-provoking.

    The Pope has made game-changing decisions: The decision to endorse redistribution of wealth by the state? The two most notable countries, Russia and China, who have endorsed that as their MO have not been kind to the church in the process. Time will tell where this will lead.
    The game changing decisions I spoke of had nothing to do with the article, it has to do with social issues, mainly gays/lesbians and abortion.

  3. #23
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    We as children of God, no matter what religion we recognize or not, have a responsibility to help our brothers in distress.

    People are always saying how they work hard for what they have and don't want some poor or lazy leach taking their money. First of all it is God's money, and if he blesses you with breath, you have been blessed.

    What people forget or ignore, is that many folks for many reasons can not care for themselves, therefore that responsibility resides with those that can.

    What people forget too is that when we die we are all equal. That other dead person has the same money I do.

  4. #24
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    We as children of God, no matter what religion we recognize or not, have a responsibility to help our brothers in distress.

    People are always saying how they work hard for what they have and don't want some poor or lazy leach taking their money. First of all it is God's money, and if he blesses you with breath, you have been blessed.

    What people forget or ignore, is that many folks for many reasons can not care for themselves, therefore that responsibility resides with those that can.

    What people forget too is that when we die we are all equal. That other dead person has the same money I do.
    menmon...as you should know as a Liberal....not all people believe they are "Children of God" Especially many of your fellow Dem's.....! I also have never been able to understand how Dem's can claim to be Christian when their Party supports Abortions!

  5. #25
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    menmon...as you should know as a Liberal....not all people believe they are "Children of God" Especially many of your fellow Dem's.....! I also have never been able to understand how Dem's can claim to be Christian when their Party supports Abortions!
    I don't believe in abortion. However, it is not governments role to tell a women what she can do with her body.

    You playing God does not make you a Christian in my book.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    menmon...as you should know as a Liberal....not all people believe they are "Children of God" Especially many of your fellow Dem's.....! I also have never been able to understand how Dem's can claim to be Christian when their Party supports Abortions!
    Many religions, don't ban abortion. A person once told me that Religion is a farce, because each person has a relationship with their God, and no religion should come between that. So for you folks that are so self righteous and condemn others for their choices, mind your own business when it comes to abortion and a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. Your party wants the govt to stay out of your personal business, yet want the govt to stop people from making a choice of their own free will. Which is it Swampy? You want the govt to tell people what to do or stay out of people's personal lives? Choose, can't have both.

  7. #27
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    We as children of God, no matter what religion we recognize or not, have a responsibility to help our brothers in distress.

    People are always saying how they work hard for what they have and don't want some poor or lazy leach taking their money. First of all it is God's money, and if he blesses you with breath, you have been blessed.

    What people forget or ignore, is that many folks for many reasons can not care for themselves, therefore that responsibility resides with those that can.

    What people forget too is that when we die we are all equal. That other dead person has the same money I do.
    excellent post mike!

    i contend that there is no country on earth that givesmore to others in distress "voluntarily" than u.s. citizens. this giving is in addition to the taxes they pay.

    i think we can all agree that governments "pander" with their benevolence. speaking from a more conservative/libertarian position, i think if people had less of their money confiscated by their government, they would help and serve others in unimaginable ways. if assistance to the poor and hungry were left to the individual we likely wouldn't see things like "obama phone service" or two years and running unemployment benefits. in my opinion both the fortunate and the unfortunate would be better off if governments do less.
    john mccallie

  8. #28
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    I was following you until you had to go throw "Obama phones on the table," which in reality are Reagan phones...

    http://www.alternet.org/election-201...-reagan-phones
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I don't believe in abortion. However, it is not governments role to tell a women what she can do with her body.

    You playing God does not make you a Christian in my book.
    Repubs overwhelmingly support Capital punishment which is a form of murder. They can't have it both ways it they believe in Thou Shall Not Kill.

    A Free People believe;

    Don't like abortion, don't get one.
    Don't want to be executed, don't commit murder.


    I personally support Choice and the Death Penalty.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  10. #30
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyhead View Post
    Many religions, don't ban abortion. A person once told me that Religion is a farce, because each person has a relationship with their God, and no religion should come between that. So for you folks that are so self righteous and condemn others for their choices, mind your own business when it comes to abortion and a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. Your party wants the govt to stay out of your personal business, yet want the govt to stop people from making a choice of their own free will. Which is it Swampy? You want the govt to tell people what to do or stay out of people's personal lives? Choose, can't have both.
    You admittedly have no religion, therefore you have no knowledge relevant to this discussion.

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