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Thread: Pope Francis

  1. #91
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Einstein was long gone when Hubble took a deep look into the universes.

    Yes, Einstein had a great mind for his day! Obviously, you know very little about him.


    Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

    Einstein's thoughts on a god were more inline with Thomas Jefferson's than say Billy Graham's.

    Einstein's God was energy and not spiritual.

    I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)
    Franco...your gross assumptions that you are the only one who knows anything is a bit over the top....any of us can find something and cut/paste it and then claim how much we know....but you frequently miss details...which frame your true understanding of the topics....Christians have differing views of God, is he in our image or is he a burning bush? The one thing we all have in common is the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Son of God who died for our sins. That it the cross that binds us together....

    When talking about Einstein....I found a bit more on what you were discussing and this makes your comments complete. These comments would not be offensive to most Christians...

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." So Einstein once wrote to explain his personal creed: "A religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation."
    His was not a life of prayer and worship. Yet he lived by a deep faith — a faith not capable of rational foundation — that there are laws of Nature to be discovered. His lifelong pursuit was to discover them.
    His realism and his optimism are illuminated by his remark: "Subtle is the Lord, but malicious He is not"("Raffiniert ist der Herrgott aber boshaft ist er nicht."). When asked by a colleague what he meant by that, he replied: "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." ("Die Natur verbirgt ihr Geheimnis durch die Erhabenheit ihres Wesens, aber nicht durch List.")

  2. #92
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Franco...your gross assumptions that you are the only one who knows anything is a bit over the top....any of us can find something and cut/paste it and then claim how much we know....but you frequently miss details...which frame your true understanding of the topics....Christians have differing views of God, is he in our image or is he a burning bush? The one thing we all have in common is the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Son of God who died for our sins. That it the cross that binds us together....

    When talking about Einstein....I found a bit more on what you were discussing and this makes your comments complete. These comments would not be offensive to most Christians...

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." So Einstein once wrote to explain his personal creed: "A religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation."
    His was not a life of prayer and worship. Yet he lived by a deep faith — a faith not capable of rational foundation — that there are laws of Nature to be discovered. His lifelong pursuit was to discover them.
    His realism and his optimism are illuminated by his remark: "Subtle is the Lord, but malicious He is not"("Raffiniert ist der Herrgott aber boshaft ist er nicht."). When asked by a colleague what he meant by that, he replied: "Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse." ("Die Natur verbirgt ihr Geheimnis durch die Erhabenheit ihres Wesens, aber nicht durch List.")
    Like I said, Einstein's thoughts of a god are more inline with Jefferson's than Billy Graham's.

    That's because Einstein's god is energy and not a spiritual god. If Christians understood this, they would be offended!

    In regards to your first sentence, I don't claim to know more than other people. I just know more than you!

    You are crawfishing(walking backwards) on this one from you last post, where you thought Einstein to believe in a spiritual god.

    Here is your quote;

    "Albert Einstein clearly disagreed with your position, to mention one notable scientist, their are of course many more! "

    You had zero idea in what the man believed in!
    Last edited by Franco; 05-13-2014 at 05:13 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  3. #93
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Did I read the Pope wants to baptize MARTIANS???
    Yes, da Pope has a sense of humor!
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  4. #94
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    Pete...for someone who claims not to be a religious person, you sure have a lot of scripture in you posts......

    But since you are a student of the Bible...you surely know that you can find many different scriptures that conflict and can be interrupted differently. I believe that part of that is intentional, but most of it is do to the different languages and interpretations of those languages (e.g. in the Ten Commandments, does the original version say 'Thou Shall Not Kill" or "Thou Shall Not Murder") Interpretation is everything, and the Book must be interpreted in total not piece by piece.
    I have a different definition of religion and what being religious is.

    Some verses stand alone,,,,some require context,,,,some require definition by the first usage of a particular word. Some require scripture build up and ect.ect. Scripture does not conflict which each other. Our understanding is what is in conflict. God is perfect and his word is perfect. its our job to study it. IITim 2 15.

    There is one God yet over 4000 different denominations or belief systems.
    jesus christ was killed by religious leaders

    God says in II pete 1:20 that there is no private interpretation of his word. So either there is no interpretation or the word must interpret itself. I believe it does just that.
    Heb 4 "12
    And the word of God helps you see through all the BS the world has to offer.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 05-13-2014 at 07:18 PM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  5. #95
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    You had zero idea in what the man believed in!

    But I like what he says here below. I have a small appreciation for what he is saying in the 2nd to last paragraph. When I was in engineering school, every day in class was kind of a eureka experience for me. I used to lay in bed at night unable to sleep, mind racing in awe at the beauty of science. It actually made me more religious. I'm not a God fearing type, I would more categorize my relationship as one of amazement and respect.

    The following short essay is taken from the abridged edition of Einstein's book The World As I See It. In this edition the essay appears on pp. 28-29.

    You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own. But it is different from the religion of the naive man.
    For the latter God is a being from whose care one hopes to benefit and whose punishment one fears; a sublimation of a feeling similar to that of a child for its father, a being to whom one stands to some extent in a personal relation, however deeply it may be tinged with awe.


    But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.


    This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire. It is beyond question closely akin to that which has possessed the religious geniuses of all ages.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  6. #96
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post

    But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.


    Einstein may have lived during the wrong era. Reading the above statement, you would think he was a, "Child Of The Enlightenment" as was Thomas Jefferson.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  7. #97
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Franco....always reading things into comments to try a make you point, never did I discuss anything regarding a 'spiritual God'....nor did I define what I believe....sometimes I think you are just a 'crackpot' trying to make since of your positions....which in fact never works out for you...

  8. #98
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    Einstein may have lived during the wrong era. Reading the above statement, you would think he was a, "Child Of The Enlightenment" as was Thomas Jefferson
    Child of the enlightened is another way of saying the illuminated ones,, and is one sect of luciferians, which can be as diverse as christen sects.
    By the way Franco how do you know TJ wasn't a fable and a myth.,, HA,,, I crack myself up.

    You believe in JC the Rabbii but say the book is all fables . So you believe fables. or do you just believe the stuff thats convienent for you.
    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  9. #99
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Just because one considered themselves as a Child Of The Enlightenment did NOT mean one was a member of the Illuminati. If anything, there was speculation that Jefferson was a Freemason, though there was never any proof of that.

    Enlightenment or Age Of Reason swept this country in the days before the Revolution largely fueled by the Deist Thomas Paine and his writings, "Common Sense".

    The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment or Age of Reason) was a cultural movement of intellectuals beginning in late 17th-century Europe emphasizing reason and individualism rather than tradition. Its purpose was to reform society using reason, to challenge ideas grounded in tradition and faith, and to advance knowledge through the scientific method. It promoted scientific thought, skepticism, and intellectual interchange. The Enlightenment was a revolution in human thought. This new way of thinking was that rational thought begins with clearly stated principles, uses correct logic to arrive at conclusions, tests the conclusions against evidence, and then revises the principles in the light of the evidence.

    ........................................

    Swamp, this was your statement; "Albert Einstein clearly disagreed with your position, to mention one notable scientist, their are of course many more!"

    If anything, I agree with Einsten that there is no spiritual god. Like the Deist Jefferson, Einstein was in awe of nature. Jefferson believed in the god of nature (energy) and not an omnipotent god. Einstein was also in awe of the Universe and its complexities and how the universe was about energy and NOT an omnipotent god.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  10. #100
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    Luciferianism is a belief system that includes both theistic and secular denominations, and is therefore heavily influenced by personal perspectives and experiences. Considered by many to be a religion and by some to be a philosophy or way of life, Luciferianism as a whole has no specific dogma to which its “followers” adhere. Rather, it is a deeply personal outlook with numerous variations ranging from the veneration of a literal deity and the practice of occultism to a secular set of principles, using mythological references as a form of symbolism and cultural tradition.
    Contents

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    General beliefs[edit]

    Although sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different and unrelated belief system and does not revere the Devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many Morning Star, a symbol of enlightenment, independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish figure Lilith.
    Contrary to popular misconceptions, Luciferianism does not typically support violence or amoral practices[citation needed]. They support the moral and intellectual development of children in particular, and the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians feel that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil[citation needed], to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor.
    For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. They prize the wonders of nature and seek to connect with the natural world and the universe that humans inhabit, in order to move humankind forward, whether it be physically or socially. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. In whatever incarnation Lucifer is viewed, whether theistic or not, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.
    Theistic Luciferianism[edit]

    Some Luciferians believe in Lucifer as an actual deity, not to be worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God but to be revered and followed as a teacher and friend, as a rescuer or guiding spirit, or even the one true god as opposed to the traditional creator of Judaism.[1] Theistic Luciferians are followers of the Left-Hand Path and may adhere to different dogmata put forth by organizations such as the Neo-Luciferian Church or other congregations that are heavily focused on ceremonial magic, the occult and literal interpretations of spirit
    There main goal is enlightenment Same stuff ,different package
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

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