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Thread: Why did the US "really" invade Iraq?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Rose's Mom's Avatar
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    swampcollielover - that article is very correct. The biggest mistake the Bush adm. made was to actually think that once Sadam was overthrown and Baghdad was taken over it was the end of it. He "sold" that to the American populous and they bought it. You cannot change a dictatorship into a democracy overnight. And that is what most born Americans who have never lived for a period of time overseas do not and will never understand. America was made great by our founding fathers by understanding the principals of freedom and self - governance. Europe and the rest of the world fall short of that understanding. People who have grown up and used to decades of government taking care of all their needs will never comprehend that.
    And I am afraid that we are slowly going towards that mentality. "He is getting government subsidies, why should I not get them as well! She wants an abortion paid for and contraceptives paid for so she can go to parties and vacations, why can"t I have that!" and the examples can go on and on and on.

  2. #122
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Actually Rose's Mom, the basic principles of democracy were laid out by European philosophers in the "Age of Reason". The writings of Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke and others greatly influenced American thought.
    Zeus

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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Actually Rose's Mom, the basic principles of democracy were laid out by European philosophers in the "Age of Reason". The writings of Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke and others greatly influenced American thought.
    Actually some of the "Native American ways" were studied and used. It might have been in the book "1491" ( ? ) that I read about it. Very interesting.
    charly

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  4. #124
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Actually Rose's Mom, the basic principles of democracy were laid out by European philosophers in the "Age of Reason". The writings of Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke and others greatly influenced American thought.
    Sure as the founders came from Europe. But the last thing they wanted was to have a system of government anything like what they left. What they created has worked pretty damn good for a long time... Although some are doing their best to screw it up.
    Bill Davis

  5. #125
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose's Mom View Post
    swampcollielover - that article is very correct. The biggest mistake the Bush adm. made was to actually think that once Sadam was overthrown and Baghdad was taken over it was the end of it. He "sold" that to the American populous and they bought it. You cannot change a dictatorship into a democracy overnight. And that is what most born Americans who have never lived for a period of time overseas do not and will never understand. America was made great by our founding fathers by understanding the principals of freedom and self - governance. Europe and the rest of the world fall short of that understanding. People who have grown up and used to decades of government taking care of all their needs will never comprehend that.
    And I am afraid that we are slowly going towards that mentality. "He is getting government subsidies, why should I not get them as well! She wants an abortion paid for and contraceptives paid for so she can go to parties and vacations, why can"t I have that!" and the examples can go on and on and on.
    Rose's Mom....thanks, although I am not a big fan of Gen Powell, he did clearly tell us how he believes the Iraq war got going under Bush, and what they all did wrong....of course this is easy when looking back.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Rose's Mom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Actually Rose's Mom, the basic principles of democracy were laid out by European philosophers in the "Age of Reason". The writings of Jean Jacques Rousseau, John Locke and others greatly influenced American thought.
    Yeah - except they will never ever be able to put that in practice in Europe. And the first wave of immigrants and later founders were Europeans who came here and left those governments behind.

  7. #127
    Senior Member Rose's Mom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Sure as the founders came from Europe. But the last thing they wanted was to have a system of government anything like what they left. What they created has worked pretty damn good for a long time... Although some are doing their best to screw it up.

    ...............Exactly!

  8. #128
    Senior Member Rose's Mom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Rose's Mom....thanks, although I am not a big fan of Gen Powell, he did clearly tell us how he believes the Iraq war got going under Bush, and what they all did wrong....of course this is easy when looking back.
    Yup, looking back..... I was in favor of going to Iraq in desperate hopes that they actually wanted democracy and freedom of oppression. I grew up under communism and hoped for something to happen while listening in secret to Voice of America and Free Europe radio programs. Looking back I do not think that the majority there actually want that.

  9. #129
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose's Mom View Post
    Yup, looking back..... I was in favor of going to Iraq in desperate hopes that they actually wanted democracy and freedom of oppression. I grew up under communism and hoped for something to happen while listening in secret to Voice of America and Free Europe radio programs. Looking back I do not think that the majority there actually want that.
    It's always interesting to me how many folks I meet or hear about who grew up like you did, but end up in America and now see us trying move to the European way of doing things (politically speaking).

    Most Europeans that I have met (in this category) tend to lean right and are not happy with the direction we are going.

    Am I wrong?
    Bill Davis

  10. #130
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Franco...if you read your article carefully you see that the author is speaking about what he 'thinks' will be in Gen Powell's upcoming book on this topic. He makes a number of comments that are actually what he believes Powell will say, not what Gen Powell actually did say in his book. Below is a recent comment from Powell on President Bush...I included the web address so you and others can read this interview in full context!

    Note: this interview with Powell was from January of 2013....kinda seals the deal when talking about how Gen Powell now feels about GW Bush and WMD! Franco, maybe you should rethink your position?

    http://crooksandliars.com/heather/colin-powell-continues-defend-wmd-lies-ira



    By Heather January 13, 2013 12:31 pm


    Quote from this article:


    GREGORY [Interviewer]: In your judgment, was he wrong on Iraq?


    GEN. POWELL: I would not have called it that. I would have said that what I think was wrong was the president had more than sufficient basis to believe that there were weapons of mass destruction that were a danger to the world and the possibility of those weapons going to terrorists. And so, he undertook military action. I think that was the correct thing to do and it was well supported by the intelligence. I think we did not execute the operation well. Once Baghdad fell, there was a feeling that well that was the end of it. It was not the end of it. That was just the beginning of it.


    Franco...have not heard back from you on this? Did I clear up Gen Powell's position on G W Bush and his reason for entering the war?

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