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Thread: teacher tenure

  1. #61
    Senior Member Terri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian breuer View Post
    Sorry but it doesn't work that way and thank god. I'll handle discipline for my kids. I am against any public sector union and the powers it grants. Let alone granting corporal punishment powers. You can make a case for police and firefighter unions but white collar professionals have no need for union protections. Every single union ive dealt with provided protection for the bottom 20% and took awAy incentive for the truly talented.
    I'm against corporal punishment by teachers or principals, I was a target for a couple teachers at the Catholic school for being left handed. Too easy to abuse the power. Like I stated in another post unions are not wanted in many work places, but the ones who want it are feeling pinched by the management unfairly. My sister who is a nurse has 6 to 7 patients at a time and within the last couple of weeks two nurses have moved to different hospitals. Her hospital has not hired more nurses and call her every day she is off (even when she just worked 4 days at 12 hours each day). How would you like your boss to call and text you at 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. multiple times on your nights off, especially that first night? She has never been in a union, but she is getting tired of the calls and their lack of understanding about the patient load with very sick people needing more individual care and not receiving. Mismanagement brings in the unions. Good management doesn't move people to start unions.

    Terri

  2. #62
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Farrar View Post
    Swampy, the parents who homeschool their kids are involved parents. Good for them.
    People who work with their dogs every day have better performing dogs than those that don't. Does that shock you?

    I'm off to the fair to watch the livestock auction. Have a nice day.
    Davy Boy......it was the damn teachers union that took this option away from the teachers...not the parents....The Unions, as always have the power to change whatever they need to...

  3. #63
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Looking at the academic success of home-schooled kids, one might consider some variables. The home-schooled kids get personal attention not likely in the public school setting. They then can cover more material in less time.

    Might also mean that since the parents are mostly NOT professionals, they may be using some teaching methods reflective of their own schooling. Maybe some "old-fashioned" teaching methods actually worked?

    Yes, public schools must take all students, those with disabilities (both mental and physical). Why not encourage more home-schooling of "average" kids, so that our public schools can give more attention to those with disabilities? The monetary savings also free up more funds for those who have those disabilities, doesn't it? Those doing the home-schooling are not getting school tax rebates, so why not take advantage of all that "free" labor?

    Those home-schooled kids also don't get free lunches and some other stuff that will save the school systems money?

    Yes, the home-schooling parents are the involved parents. That also, then, frees up the public school teachers to give more attention to students who do not have parents who are as involved.

    Home-schooled kids have many group activities as well, so they aren't deprived of socialization. One parent I know who home schooled, actually felt that if they took advantage of all the group activities available, there wouldn't be much time left for their "schooling".

    It seems hard to argue with something that produces good academic achievement, is cost-effective, and allows the public school system to allow teachers more time to devote to the students who need it most.
    Gerry...don't forget the private schools both large and small....the too are consistently outperforming the public schools systems....and are growing. They have handicapped kids and poor kids that are brought in with paid scholarships.

  4. #64
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schusker View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but the "good parents" are a minority now. Out of my wife's 20 kids, less than half are involved in there child's education. This if from first hand knowledge. Never used to be that way, she would only have two or three parents that didn't care. So yes, parents are PART to blame.

    One of the reasons home schooling has grown so much is that the "good parents" have realized they can better educate there child when they take them out of the public environment. If a teacher didn't have to deal with the politics and bad parents our system would be outstanding, but that will never happen. It is only getting worse. Teachers 20 years ago could discipline a child and the parents would back them up, not now.
    I do not disagree that the parents play a key role, but there are exceptions. Some kids make it in spite of their parents or lack or parents. In our entitlement anything goes society today, nothing is going to change here. So our answer in the public system is to pull down the system to accommodate these kids. Not the correct answer, so parents today are finding better ways including private schooling and home schooling. The more the public schools continue to try and accommodate kids that are disadvantages by pulling the whole system down to accommodate them, the more the system will continue to fail. We have schools for extremely talented kids, why don't we have schools for kids that need a slower pace and more support? Unions and Government always go to the Socialized approach....all for one and one for all....which never works, in the long run!

    Your gonna lose a few kids but we are losing them now.....at least this is an attempt to use what has worked in the past..
    Last edited by swampcollielover; 06-15-2014 at 07:53 AM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member schusker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    I do not disagree that the parents play a key role, but there are exceptions. Some kids make it in spite of their parents or lack or parents. In our entitlement anything goes society today, nothing is going to change here. So our answer in the public system is to pull down the system to accommodate these kids. Not the correct answer, so parents today are finding better ways including private schooling and home schooling. The more the public schools continue to try and accommodate kids that are disadvantages by pulling the whole system down to accommodate them, the more the system will continue to fail. We have schools for extremely talented kids, why don't we have schools for kids that need a slower pace and more support? Unions and Government always go to the Socialized approach....all for one and one for all....which never works, in the long run!
    Agreed, mainstreaming does not always work and usually pull the rest of the class down.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyhead View Post
    Why not have the parents sign a form that states the school has the right to discipline students with the necessary means to hold an orderly classroom. Parents couldn't sue the school for back handing a smart mouthed punk that truly deserves it. Corporal punishment, such as a couple swats with a paddle was common practice when I was in school. It was the embarrassment in front of our friends, rather than the physical part that kept us in line. Just sayin.
    Shinyhead....I agree with you, except for the corporal punishment...in today's world, it is just not an option. But, their are so many more ways to control behavior like setting in a corner with a dunce hat, standing in a corner facing the wall, writing 'I will not....' 100 times after school....these things work! And if a kid won't do it....he is outta school until his parents come in a make him do what he was told to do....

  7. #67
    Senior Member Dave Farrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Farrar View Post
    Swampy, please share with us what you do for a living. Although I probably have no idea how to do your job, this should not prevent me for telling you how lousy you are doing and how you could be better at it.
    Thanks in advance!
    Still waiting...
    I want to hear how YOU are helping to make the world a better place. How do you contribute to society??? Or are you just a "taker" that constantly complains?
    DUCKDAWG'S MAC'S MAGICAL MR. OCTOBER JH -- Reggie

  8. #68
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian breuer View Post
    Sorry but it doesn't work that way and thank god. I'll handle discipline for my kids. I am against any public sector union and the powers it grants. Let alone granting corporal punishment powers. You can make a case for police and firefighter unions but white collar professionals have no need for union protections. Every single union ive dealt with provided protection for the bottom 20% and took awAy incentive for the truly talented.
    Great statement...I worked with the Teamsters for many years, and in our operations, the union only helped around 5% of its members. Most of the other tolerated the union and its leaders....it was for sure a love - hate relationship with a few notable exceptions.

    That being said, I fully support the need for Unions in the private sector, it is the only balance between the potential abuses by management and the working guy! The key point here is that without the power of the union, workers cannot stop management from doing bad things to them.

    I totally do not support Unions in the Public Sectors because the members already have a way to get rid of management by going to the voting booths, in mass and voting them out of office! If they also have the power of the union on top of the voting capabilities, the have too much leverage over their management. That frequently results in collusion between the labor management and the public sector management. You scratch my back, and I will scratch yours.....! When this happens, and it does, we all lose! e.g....IRS, NEA, NLRB, etc. etc. etc.....

  9. #69
    Senior Member Dave Farrar's Avatar
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    Swampy, please share with us what you do for a living. Although I probably have no idea how to do your job, this should not prevent me for telling you how lousy you are doing and how you could be better at it.
    Thanks in advance!



    Still waiting...
    I want to hear how YOU are helping to make the world a better place. How do you contribute to society??? Or are you just a "taker" that constantly complains?

    Your silence on this matter speaks louder than your words.

    DUCKDAWG'S MAC'S MAGICAL MR. OCTOBER JH -- Reggie

  10. #70
    Senior Member Dave Farrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Great statement...I worked with the Teamsters for many years, and in our operations, the union only helped around 5% of its members. Most of the other tolerated the union and its leaders....it was for sure a love - hate relationship with a few notable exceptions.

    That being said, I fully support the need for Unions in the private sector, it is the only balance between the potential abuses by management and the working guy! The key point here is that without the power of the union, workers cannot stop management from doing bad things to them.

    I totally do not support Unions in the Public Sectors because the members already have a way to get rid of management by going to the voting booths, in mass and voting them out of office!

    Dear CLUELESS,
    Regardless of what Glenn Beck tells you, teachers do not vote for their district superintendent or principal.
    DUCKDAWG'S MAC'S MAGICAL MR. OCTOBER JH -- Reggie

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