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Really 30+ dogs for one handler

71K views 288 replies 117 participants last post by  hooked on quackers 
#1 · (Edited)
https://www.entryexpress.net/loggedin/viewentries.aspx?eid=6794


This isn't about being able to get in or not for me I was given the heads up, I was at work and unable to get to a computer fine really doesn't matter to me but I was planning on running and working the weekend, for a club I do not belong to, but It's more about a club having there first HT and what a nightmare one "Pro" is going to create, instead of having a bunch of enteries from the surronding clubs with people willing to step in and give a hand now they have 3/4 of the field split between 2 pro's... All I can say is the system is terribly flawed. Feel really bad for the club..
 
#2 ·
that's insane!!!! What can be done about stuff like that? I was going to post a thread about people judging who have their dogs pro trained and don't really know set ups. For a new comer like me it makes a guy hesitate about joining the sport, im addicted to it so it wont matter lol but aren't the odds stacked enough against the ams wheather in the hunt test or field trials. Seems like things are more geared around making a buck...?
 
#4 ·
Hunt test is your dog against a standard so there aren't any "odds" but the participation is key for this sport and a pro taking up that many spots is pretty crazy. Club either needs to put more flights and make more positions available or something in my opinion
 
#6 ·
I still maintain the answer is a pro circuit and an amateur circuit. Let those that profit pay for the cost of an event upfront not relying on clubs to bankroll thier income.
 
#11 ·
I would put both on the clock from the start and make them work their asses off in the process. Run each am handled dog first and two pro last. No reason for am's to wait on 2/3 of the field to gather dogs.
That's not the smart thing to do. If you put him on the clock, he has 15 minutes to get to the line. I guarantee that if they do something that ignorant, he wont be the one that suffers.

Y'all are barking up the wrong tree if you're looking to publicly lynch Ray. He judges, shoots fliers, helps chair and organize, and generally does anything possible to help.
 
#10 · (Edited)
First off I am not anti pro, I consider a few of them good friends, and MANY contibute and do more than there fair share in both the FT and HT games, but the ones that I speak of know that it takes both sides to make this game work, and don't take advantage of the situation. In this case I feel it is a complete lack of respect for the club to put them in a position where he is going to cost them money ( bydogs=extra time=xtra hired help) and extra live birds, throw bydogs in the mix with nobirds and you have a huge added expence to the club. Also a lack of respect for other handlers, seems to be all about me and my costomers. Never met the guy but may plan on going over to help the club out and introduce myself.. I would think marshaling would be the job to have for the 2 days:D
 
#17 ·
The heck with the title of the thread.....the fall scramble is starting. Notice all the tests that are open and take place August 1 and later are full already. Some clubs are listing opening times at least. I'm frustrated already. I'm looking to run in master and get legs towards a title. Not Q legs for MN.

I'm off to bed and going to put this out of my mind....it's absolutely outrageous.

Sue Puff
 
#18 ·
from an outsider (non HT person) one can see that the game has created a monster, and now you want to control the monster that the game has created..The pro is only doing what he is hired to do by owners that want a titled dog, doesnt the absentee owner bear some of the responsibility for creating the situation

The pro is nothing more than an entrepeneur in this case, its very hard to limit the amount of clients he is allowed to have..that would be like telling a lawyer he can only take on so many clients because it clogs up the courts or telling a doctor he can only have so many patients because the hospital is filled
 
#19 ·
All I can say is, I am sick of it. I've run HT for years. Have 3 dogs entered in a bunch of MH thru Oct. Though I did get in most limited MH that I wanted so far this season, several filled up so fast, I didn't, and, I seriously dislike having to play games to get my dogs entered, and in some cases, months in advance. I totally understand the clubs that need to limit entries, that's fine. I am not anti-pro by any stretch. But, this is wrong. And I'm about done running HT and certainly not going to work them or bother to jump through the hoops now required to judge them. I'll take my lickings running FT and at least have fun, they're still willing to take my money and let me play. When I don't have fun anymore, I quit playing the game. I don't have any answers or cures. I just think it's wrong.
 
#105 ·
You look good in white Kim :) And I am of the same opinion BTW - Jumping thru hoops to get my training in is one thing - to enter an event that used to be as simple as writing a check and putting a stamp on the envelope twist into this is absurd ..Hope I look good in white too regards...........
 
#21 ·
How about this as a issue. since it is limited to 60 dogs and one pro has 33 it is not possible to put a dog between all his dogs. So the gunners will be waiting. and how does a Small, And I mean small club handle this when the honor comes up. He will have the honor dog and the working dog.
 
#23 ·
A pro with that many dogs should be obligated to have an assistant to bring him the dogs and to air them so no one is held up. Business expense. Maybe the answer is some clubs not being master national members so people just interested in the title can run in manageable hunt tests.
 
#24 ·
Glad to see there is a few people on here with their cup half full instead of half empty. I have only 13 dogs entered at west central with just my name on them. A good many of the other entries will be handled by the owner. Todd there is room for one more dog so feel free to enter yours. If you would like to discuss this with me my number is 706-338-9040. People that know me know the club will not have to wait on me or incur additional expenses.
 
#28 ·
Thanks for the heads up, I'll sleep on it and decide in the morning. No need to discuss it with you I know where you stand with the situation from the paperwork you helped formulate a few months ago. Like I said it's a flawed system, Id'e make it a point to contact the owners and get your name off there paperwork, 13 dogs entered by a handler is a reasonable # 33 isn't;-)
 
#25 ·
I wonder how many of them will be scratched and if it will be at the 11th hour? I don't run that circuit, but if I did THAT sure would be discouraging
 
#27 ·
I'm not calling out any pro or blaming them. I'm saying, this is wrong and skewing the intent of HT. When amateurs can't get in, something is wrong. I'm not talking about "competition" running against pros in HT, that's ludicrous, it is a standard, not a FT. I think to earn a HT title, an owner of the dog should handle it on at least one pass, if they are physically capable of doing so. Of course, some would get around that by just having co-owners, some of whom would be pros. I think if there are limits on entry numbers, then there should be limits on dogs per handler. And/or a lottery system. And/or spaces reserved for amateurs for a certain amount of time, or early entry by a day for amateurs. Or a posted opening date and time so everyone has the same chance to get in. Or a wait list and automated scratching by EE. When test after test after test fills up and big blocks of them with a pro handler/co-handler, it makes a lot of people wonder a lot of things, true or not, fair or not. It just isn't worth the angst anymore for a lot of us.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Is an Owner/Handler Hunt Test a possibility? Not sure what is allowed by AKC. It can obviously be done for FT, maybe the time has come to allow the same for HT's.

I have absolutely no beef with pros. I do think this is a growing challenge for all involved and I really dislike seeing club members left on the outside looking in. That won't serve the clubs' futures well going forward.

In quickly reviewing the entries for this test, it appears at initial glance that only a handful of the 60 Master entries aren't listed as either run by or co-handled by a pro. Guess that about sums up the current state of affairs with the Master level in this day and age. Kind of sad to see so few amateur handled dogs. I sure think those folks are missing out on a lot of potential fun and enjoyment with their dogs. So how do we encourage more folks to run their own dogs? Maybe that is a bigger question?
 
#32 ·
just spit balling here, but since it is against a standard, is there a way for pros with that many dogs to make private arrangements with a club to judge their dogs on a separate date as to not fill all the slots at trials? The club could charge a fee for the service and it would hopefully work out to a win/win/win scenario for everybody?
 
#33 · (Edited)
There seem to be 2 issues here. #1 Pro taking all the limited entry spots- answer: Send you entry in first! #2 Pro with too many dogs causing delays and difficulties on test day - answer: Isn't this between the club and that pro? If he was decent he would offer to bring some bird boy helpers, gunners, and even some by dogs, or at least confer with club to see what they need to make the day run smoothly. Who knows, maybe this was done?

Pros in our area use a helper to air dogs and bring them to the line to speed things along so they can get to next stake. Pros come to line faster than most amatuers whenever I marshall. Most trouble is when they are entered in multiple stakes and there is significant distance involved between stakes.

HRC has a solution. No one handler can enter more than 12 dogs. Seems sensible to me. AKC always seems more geared towards most profit they can make from their events. They have recently added so many different obedience level classes it is ridiculous, only reason is to garner more entry fees.
 
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