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Thread: Junior HT Rule question

  1. #1
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    Default Junior HT Rule question

    Yes, I'm asking a question about Juniors.

    Can a lead be "out" when the dog is running or does it need to be shoved into a pocket?

    The lead is being used silimiar to a slip lead in the sense that it is strung through the collar and when the dog is sent the one end is released and it slips through the collar. The other end is clipped to the handler's belt loop via a clip.

    So can the handler let the slip lead dangle at their side, exposed while the dog retrieves and then delivers the bird? Or does it need to be stuffed into a pocket and out of sight?
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    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    You would think that once the dog is on line, you would remove lead, drop it behind you or put in back pocket, and then hold collar....you would think.... I know in training the method has been used by what you described above, but that is in training.

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    Senior Member Swampcollie's Avatar
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    There are not supposed to be any exposed training aids so the lead/cord should be in the pocket or on the ground.

    There's always got to be somebody who has to try and play in the gray area.

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    I ran my first junior a couple months back and as my dog was returning on the last bird I pulled my lead out of my pocket and had it balled up in my hand. Didn't really think about it until walking away from the line and the Marshall stopped and asked me about it and I told them I did it unknowingly (guess my nerves got the best of me) and they warned me that some judges would see it as a training aid and could fail me so it needed to stay in my pocket. Not sure if that helps with your question since you asked about it hanging from the belt loop but thought I would share my experience.

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    I just Jr and Sr titled my dog this past winter and spring. Yes I am the guy who sent my dog on "MARK" the very first time. Yes, I was nervous as all hell and the judges laughed and gave me a stern talking to.

    The judges said leads out of sight until you're ready to leave the line. Place that lead in your back pocket.

    Don't be afraid to ask the judge(s) a question. Tell them you are new and they are more than willing to help.

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    This was addressed at recent judges seminar I went to. Leads are considered potential "threatening devices" as someone might whip their dog with a lead, and therefore displaying it to the dog later is a way of intimidating him.

    Definitely mention to the marshall and judges if it is your first test. They love to help and will often work with you to help decrease your anxiety, and make sure you don't inadvertently break a rule. My first judge told me to "take a deep breath, this is supposed to be fun not torture. Trust your dog, look at her wagging her tail, a smile from you would help too". His words stuck with me. To this day I repeat "fun, not torture" to myself and try to smile at my dog as we work our way thru the holding blinds to the line.
    Last edited by dogluvah; 06-11-2014 at 04:26 AM.

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    Yes, I'm asking a question about Juniors.

    Can a lead be "out" when the dog is running or does it need to be shoved into a pocket?

    The lead is being used silimiar to a slip lead in the sense that it is strung through the collar and when the dog is sent the one end is released and it slips through the collar. The other end is clipped to the handler's belt loop via a clip.

    So can the handler let the slip lead dangle at their side, exposed while the dog retrieves and then delivers the bird? Or does it need to be stuffed into a pocket and out of sight?
    I have always run a jr dog with a string tied to my belt and ran through the ring on the collar . I have never been dropped for my string dangling at my side. I suppose one can say ,its pretty tough to intimidate a dog with a piece of string dangling at your side and number two who in their right mind uses this method during training

    You a smart for not wanting to grab your dog by the collar to keep it steady. Its Bad form and if their was any method that could be viewed as intimidation it would be that one. And it often isn't used without some type of consequence.
    "Grabbing the dog by the back of the collar" That could be a great topic for a thread.
    Pete
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  8. #8
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    FOM,

    At the Sooner HT in May I asked this same question after watching a handler do this Saturday and Sunday on the line in the Jr Series. Both judges on the Sunday HT told me it was legal and that the rule had been change a couple years back to allow this. I would ask your judges before you do it.
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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluvah View Post
    This was addressed at recent judges seminar I went to. Leads are considered potential "threatening devices" as someone might whip their dog with a lead, and therefore displaying it to the dog later is a way of intimidating him.
    There is no mention in the rules of "Threatening devices", only threatening gestures. It would, however likely be covered by Section 17 Equipment.

    No handler shall carry any exposed training equipment (except whistle) or use any other equipment or threatening gestures in such a manner that they may be an aid or threat in steadying or controlling a dog. Violation of this paragraph is sufficient to cause the dog not to receive a Qualifying score.
    Carrying exposed training equipment is a Serious Handler Fault at the Master and Senior Levels.
    Serious Handler Faults: Serious faults listed cover all those instances where the Standard describes conduct of the handler which in and of itself justifies elimination from the stake.

    6. Carrying exposed training equipment (except whistle) (Master and Senior levels).
    Since JH allows a slip cord and the parenthetical in classification of faults implies that carrying exposed training equipment is not a serious fault at the Junior level, I would consider letting the cord hang from ones side okay. I would not touch it or anything as that could easily be considered a Threatening Gesture.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You a smart for not wanting to grab your dog by the collar to keep it steady. Its Bad form and if their was any method that could be viewed as intimidation it would be that one. And it often isn't used without some type of consequence.
    "Grabbing the dog by the back of the collar" That could be a great topic for a thread.
    Pete
    My opinion on this is that Junior handlers should take advantage of the rules that allow you to hold the dog (gently) by the collar. First, it allows the handler some degree of control to make sure the dog is looking at the bird and second, I have seen the slip cord thing catch a little bit on the send and pull the dog off line and it keeps going in that direction and can't get to the bird. Obviously, it is a personal preference since the rules allow both, but I prefer the collar hold.

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