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Thread: Junior HT Rule question

  1. #11
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampcollie View Post
    There are not supposed to be any exposed training aids so the lead/cord should be in the pocket or on the ground.

    There's always got to be somebody who has to try and play in the gray area.
    ^^^THIS...There is no gray area about it....if you decide to use a slip cord or slip lead to steady your dog at the line, put it in your pocket or on the ground after sending the dog....simple as that....
    The dog will always prove you wrong

  2. #12
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    My opinion on this is that Junior handlers should take advantage of the rules that allow you to hold the dog (gently) by the collar. First, it allows the handler some degree of control to make sure the dog is looking at the bird and second, I have seen the slip cord thing catch a little bit on the send and pull the dog off line and it keeps going in that direction and can't get to the bird. Obviously, it is a personal preference since the rules allow both, but I prefer the collar hold.
    It doesn't matter if you prefer the collar hold or not,,,you are affecting the dogs mind one way or another. I got to watch a junior close up from the side this weekend,,,and there is definitely a psychological affect one way or another buy the grip of ones hand on the back of a dogs neck. One being an opposition reflex. or It can make a high dog higher and a timid dog more timid,especially when drives come into play.,and that's just surface stuff,,but this isn't the place to discuss dog behavior.
    My customers get chastised for it pretty hard. To each their own.
    Pete
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    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  3. #13
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    My opinion on this is that Junior handlers should take advantage of the rules that allow you to hold the dog (gently) by the collar. First, it allows the handler some degree of control to make sure the dog is looking at the bird and second, I have seen the slip cord thing catch a little bit on the send and pull the dog off line and it keeps going in that direction and can't get to the bird. Obviously, it is a personal preference since the rules allow both, but I prefer the collar hold.
    ayup,
    nice palm up grip, tuck an ear that is on other side of judges tween thumb and base of index and even the most bouncy Tigger settles right down. Train at a test? never!!!
    miss the fake gun, wood heeling stick they used to hand me, but can do the same with a long stalk of Timothy plucked from the holding blind
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    As a JR Judge, I would ask you to put away after release dog. You can drop it by your feet and when pup returns with bird after delivery you can pick it up and slip back thru collar for 2nd bird. But as said before, if you gently hold the collar in the correction postion, it is better for the dog. You control where the looks a lot better. Is you have it cliped to a belt loop, just pull up and tuck in pocket. That way it is easy to pull back out when needed.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Pam Spears's Avatar
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    Copied from the rulebook: "Dogs may be restrained gently with a slipcord looped through the flat buckle collar, or held gently by the flat buckle collar until sent to retrieve,"

    Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you what must be done with the slip cord (not slip lead) once you release the dog. People I've seen recently use a length of fairly light cord, let one end slip when they send the dog, and ball it up in their hand. Not sure if they put it in their pocket during the retrieve; if they did, it was done unobtrusively. However, if you are using this method, you'll need to get it out again for the second retrieve, right? I would ask the judges during the handler's meeting.
    Pam
    HR Roughwater Stacked & Packed, "Babe," MH, CD, RN, CGC, WDQ

  6. #16
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    ayup,
    nice palm up grip, tuck an ear that is on other side of judges tween thumb and base of index and even the most bouncy Tigger settles right down. Train at a test? never!!!
    Let's just say that I wouldn't advise Molly Minivan to go quite that far at her first JH test--it takes too much experience on the part of the handler

  7. #17
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    Just FYI, I'm not planning on running any Junior tests and if I did my dogs would walk at heel off lead and sit steady! That's just how I roll.

    I was asking because the question came up at our HT this past weekend and I wanted to see what the RTF collective had to say. I agree always ask the judge at handler's meeting. Not to mention I just don't keep up with all the rules in a HT and I couldn't find anything specific in the rule book when I glanced through it. Pam thanks for actually quoting the rulebook.

    I personally think the slip cord is goofy as can be, but that's me, just seems like a lot of moving parts, I like simple - dog is already steady

    Thanks everyone...

    FOM
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Spears View Post
    Copied from the rulebook: "Dogs may be restrained gently with a slipcord looped through the flat buckle collar, or held gently by the flat buckle collar until sent to retrieve,"

    Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you what must be done with the slip cord (not slip lead) once you release the dog. People I've seen recently use a length of fairly light cord, let one end slip when they send the dog, and ball it up in their hand. Not sure if they put it in their pocket during the retrieve; if they did, it was done unobtrusively. However, if you are using this method, you'll need to get it out again for the second retrieve, right? I would ask the judges during the handler's meeting.

    Section 17. Equipment. No handler shall carry
    any exposed training equipment (except whistle) or use
    any other equipment or threatening gestures in such a
    manner that they may be an aid or threat in steadying or
    controlling a dog. Violation of this paragraph is sufficient
    to cause the dog not to receive a Qualifying score.

    Fortunately, a slip cord is classified as "equipment" and can not remain "exposed"...
    The dog will always prove you wrong

  9. #19
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I would suggest to any handler at any level to NOT have anything that looks like a string or a ROPE hangin from yer britches....
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #20
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labs View Post
    Section 17. Equipment. No handler shall carry
    any exposed training equipment (except whistle) or use
    any other equipment or threatening gestures in such a
    manner that they may be an aid or threat in steadying or
    controlling a dog. Violation of this paragraph is sufficient
    to cause the dog not to receive a Qualifying score.

    Fortunately, a slip cord is classified as "equipment" and can not remain "exposed"...
    Just to clarify, that is not the only place it is mentioned in the rules. Read the classification of faults
    6. Carrying exposed training equipment (except whistle) – (Master and Senior levels).
    It is not so clear cut at Junior.

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