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Thread: What a crazy weekend *AKC JR TEST VENT*

  1. #1
    Senior Member KevinsKennels's Avatar
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    Angry What a crazy weekend *AKC JR TEST VENT*

    Allrighty folks...i have had by far the weirdest weekend running hunt tests. Let me start off by saying on Saturday my dog and i passed our second JR test which was amazing! But Sunday was just plain nerve racking. So first live flyer on land series, the bird was thrown hit the wind and turned into the woods, Judges called "no bird", i decided to run right away again since he was already amped up and ready to run, so we came back to the line and second bird was thrown and shot and landed about 70 yards out in some decoys, judges called my number and i sent my dog and on his way out to the second bird (the only shot bird) he all of a sudden took a hard right and be lined into the woods...i thought "oh crap...now what"...after about 15 seconds or so he come busting out with the ORIGINAL LIVE FLYER!! so the judges said that was the strangest thing but let it fly. So we lined up for the second bird and BAM perfect mark, no hunting needed, and delivered to hand. So we got called back for the second series (the water work) and got the first bird after a little bit of hunting (bad mark on our part), and got set up for the second bird and sent him out and he decided to go visit the bird boy in the blind (dangit) and the bird boy had accidentally left a bird on the ground so the dog grabbed it and brought it back and delivered to hand! Judges discussed this and did NOT let me re-run or say anything really about it. At the end of the day at the passing out of ribbons, my number was not called and i asked the judges why, and they said his marking on the two birds was scored ZERO's so it dropped my average down (or so im told) but he had perfect line manners, brought me back 4 birds, delivered to hand, and never cheated the lines....needless to say i am upset with my self, the dog, and the judges for not (in my opinion) giving me re-runs for unforeseen circumstances.....I am new to this game and have been trying to learn all the rules and everything so i am not sure weather i am in the right or wrong for feeling like i kind of got screwed.


    On a side note...i did not pass, but a PRO trainer who brought 4 dogs to line on slip leads and 1 on a choke chain (which i thought was 100% against the rules) was able to earn his ribbons????


    Thats enough of a rant for now...just bummed now, but defiantly driven to train even harder!!!
    Captain Drake of Dutchess JH. "Drake"
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  2. #2
    Senior Member i_willie12's Avatar
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    Some weekends seems like its just not your test!!!

    Stop trying to read/understand the rules! ha it seems that box has ALOT of gray and each judge reads at a different level...
    "Some people pride themselves on how far they can shoot ducks, others pride themselves on how close they can get them. I'm an other!!! "
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    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Or as someone else said, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Different judges might have given you a pass, or at least a re-run. Stick with the game long enough and sometimes you'll get a pass from a pair of judges that you/your dog really didn't deserve.
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    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

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    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    do you know that the pro brought the dogs TO THE LINE on slip or chokes? You ARE allowed to go through the holding blinds with them... yea yea I know no training tools...but go sit at master , most will bring the dog through the holding blinds on a choke or a slip
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    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    The dog being "Amped Up" is the perfect reason NOT to re-run immediately. Take him back, calm him and you down and come back for a clean run at it. I'm guessing it wasn't really the dog that was amped

    From your description it would be hard to see how you could have enough points to qualify for a ribbon. Bird Boy made an error but so did the dog. 2 of the birds he brought back were not the ones sent for. Its a JH test, you both learned something hopefully and you got to play all day. Money well spent, move on.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member KevinsKennels's Avatar
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    Bridget,
    Yes everybody was talking in the gallery about it, because everybody could see it. Im not docking him, or his technique but it was made very clear by the judges that they are not allowed. It just kind of bugged me is all.

    IowaBayDog, it takes me a good while to get my dog ready to run due to his calm nature, so i did not want to turn it off and try again.

    I did have fun, do not get me wrong, i did learn ALOT (good and bad about the hunt tests and my dog/myself)
    Captain Drake of Dutchess JH. "Drake"
    Kodiak Miss Angel "Koda" R.I.P.

  7. #7
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    Many years ago, my dog had just returned to the line with the last bird of the first series. She didn't do all that well according to my opinion. After settling down, I asked an older handler for some advice. He said tests are simpler if you remember this..."Dogs run, handlers handle and judges judge. In the end (after the run is over), the only thing you had control over was dealing with those things related to handling."

    So from my experiences over the years, I picked a few segments from your post to comment on.

    "the bird boy had accidentally left a bird on the ground so the dog grabbed it and brought it back and delivered to hand!"

    This happens more than most realize. Usually, the dog does not pass. Personally, if my dog did that I would pick him up and withdraw from the test....but that's just my opinion as a handler/trainer. I've done just that. So I am not "blowing smoke".

    "never cheated the lines"

    The "lines" consist of going out and returning. If he went to the bird boy and stole a bird, his lines were not perfect.

    I am not sure whether I am in the right or wrong for feeling like I kind of got screwed."

    There is nothing wrong with being disappointed. I would say you were not "screwed" (as you put it). The dog didn't meet their standards according to the way those judges interpreted them. The dog failed in performing his tasks to the standard. Judges.....judged.

    The handler...handled and the dog didn't run well enough. In addition, there is no way the behavior, performance or circumstances of another handler or dog should be interpreted in some manner to support an opinion. Handler's opinions are not part of the test. Handlers handle.

    Now, I'm not sure what this means. "Defiantly driven to train even harder"

    Did you mean "definitely" or "defiantly" driven?

    Good luck on your next test.......wait a minute...."luck" should not be part of the process.
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 06-16-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinsKennels View Post
    Allrighty folks...i have had by far the weirdest weekend running hunt tests. Let me start off by saying on Saturday my dog and i passed our second JR test which was amazing! But Sunday was just plain nerve racking. So first live flyer on land series, the bird was thrown hit the wind and turned into the woods, Judges called "no bird", i decided to run right away again since he was already amped up and ready to run, so we came back to the line and second bird was thrown and shot and landed about 70 yards out in some decoys, judges called my number and i sent my dog and on his way out to the second bird (the only shot bird) he all of a sudden took a hard right and be lined into the woods...i thought "oh crap...now what"...after about 15 seconds or so he come busting out with the ORIGINAL LIVE FLYER!! so the judges said that was the strangest thing but let it fly. So we lined up for the second bird and BAM perfect mark, no hunting needed, and delivered to hand. So we got called back for the second series (the water work) and got the first bird after a little bit of hunting (bad mark on our part), and got set up for the second bird and sent him out and he decided to go visit the bird boy in the blind (dangit) and the bird boy had accidentally left a bird on the ground so the dog grabbed it and brought it back and delivered to hand! Judges discussed this and did NOT let me re-run or say anything really about it. At the end of the day at the passing out of ribbons, my number was not called and i asked the judges why, and they said his marking on the two birds was scored ZERO's so it dropped my average down (or so im told) but he had perfect line manners, brought me back 4 birds, delivered to hand, and never cheated the lines....needless to say i am upset with my self, the dog, and the judges for not (in my opinion) giving me re-runs for unforeseen circumstances.....I am new to this game and have been trying to learn all the rules and everything so i am not sure weather i am in the right or wrong for feeling like i kind of got screwed.


    On a side note...i did not pass, but a PRO trainer who brought 4 dogs to line on slip leads and 1 on a choke chain (which i thought was 100% against the rules) was able to earn his ribbons????


    Thats enough of a rant for now...just bummed now, but defiantly driven to train even harder!!!
    Congrats on first day pass!

    I am not sure this is acceptable. IMO and the bird boy should have them in a bucket (courtesy) but... The dog should mark the fall and the dog should hunt in the AOF. Getting the first flyer was not the bird thrown for the test. IMO I would gone back in the line b/c he was young and let him settle. And let him try to forget that flyer. Don't be too eager!!! and rushing. JMO

    Sounds like he did well the first day and is very capable. Good luck to you.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Swampcollie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinsKennels View Post

    So first live flyer on land series, the bird was thrown hit the wind and turned into the woods, Judges called "no bird", i decided to run right away again since he was already amped up and ready to run, so we came back to the line and second bird was thrown and shot and landed about 70 yards out in some decoys, judges called my number and i sent my dog and on his way out to the second bird (the only shot bird) he all of a sudden took a hard right and be lined into the woods...
    Well, you should view this as an important learning experience. In the case of a nobird, ALWAYS take the dog away from the line and wait as long as possible before going back again. You want to give the dog as much time as possible to settle down and FORGET about the bird that flew away.




    Quote Originally Posted by KevinsKennels View Post

    So we got called back for the second series (the water work) and got the first bird after a little bit of hunting (bad mark on our part), and got set up for the second bird and sent him out and he decided to go visit the bird boy in the blind (dangit) and the bird boy had accidentally left a bird on the ground so the dog grabbed it and brought it back and delivered to hand!
    In this situation you need to have a more thorough understanding about how this game is scored. (Yes, there is some method to the madness.) For Marking situations it entails proceeding to the AOF (Area Of Fall), hunting for for the bird and finding the bird. Most judges won't include the throwing station in the AOF. The AOF might start just outside the throwing station in some instances in the case of a poor throw, but it's stretching it.

    From your description the dog did not proceed to the AOF and establish a hunt. It instead went to the throwing station and hunted there. If this had been a single occurance during the test the Judges might have let it slide but, the dog also failed to return with the bird it was sent for in the first series as well. Remember they are scoring Marking too, not just finding any old bird and bringing it back.


    It is indeed possible to bring all the birds back in a hunt test and not pass. It's HOW that work was done that matters.
    Last edited by Swampcollie; 06-16-2014 at 12:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    I'm suprised the judges didn't have the no bird picked up. I've had a couple of no birds myself and the judges have always done that. I believe in a junior you can bring the dog to the line on lead with a flat buckle collar. Before signaling for the bird the lead must be removed and you can hold the dog by the collar. On a no bird I always go back at least four dogs before I would run. Could just be me though. Dogs do some strange things at tests so you must always be prepared for the worst, which is sometimes a good thing. You know what to train for to correct, so don't be discouraged

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