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Thread: Laying down to pick up during FF

  1. #11
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    Laying down is a conditioned response to the pressure involved in the process of ff. ff is a fluid process after the dog comprehends what is being commanded to do. Move the dog forward to the object he is being commanded to fetch. I will be willing to bet this dog has a very good sit response and may actually be fairly steady already. Me, I would use a pinch and warm him up with walking fetch for a week and go into heavy walking fetch after he has been conditioned with the pinch. When he starts to lay down move forward and apply pressure with the pinch.
    "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching"....J.C. Watts

  2. #12
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Laying down is an evasion. Simple solution: Move the bumper ahead as soon as he starts to lay down, keep it moving and keep the pressure on until he gets it, then praise.
    Sharon Potter

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    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNG View Post
    Won't that get ironed out when we get to walking fetch and stick fetch? Right now my problem is figuring out how to get him to 'fetch' on lower bumpers without him laying down. Tony's idea seems good--I'll try moving the bumper away as he goes for it to force him to stay on his feet.
    I was just saying that you don't want to train in bad habits only to have to train them out. Asking the question was a good idea IMO. I would want to get this resolved before I went to far and it became a habit.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #14
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    JNG;

    This just a reminder, all the answers to your question are opinions. There are many way to train? It's up to you to find the way that best fits your dog. If the dog is going to the ground, for what ever reason and more not less pressure is used. You are running the risk of breaking down the dog. I for one do not take that chance. I back up and evaluate my method.

    Keith

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    JNG;

    This just a reminder, all the answers to your question are opinions. There are many way to train? It's up to you to find the way that best fits your dog. If the dog is going to the ground, for what ever reason and more not less pressure is used. You are running the risk of breaking down the dog. I for one do not take that chance. I back up and evaluate my method.

    Keith
    I don't believe that anyone suggested increasing the amount of pressure but simply to continue pressure until the job is completed correctly.

  6. #16
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    I don't believe that anyone suggested increasing the amount of pressure but simply to continue pressure until the job is completed correctly.
    Tony;

    There is many thing to look for when using this method. Are their ears back, is their tail tuck, when you bring out the bumper do they immediately start dipping their head. I know that FF is all about pressure, but when it stars to affect other aspects of training it time to take a look at what you are doing.

    Like I said before, I cut it out of the fetch portion of Dobbs program along time ago.

    Sorry, I just don't like this method.

    Keith
    Last edited by truthseeker; 06-22-2014 at 11:09 AM. Reason: More

  7. #17
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    Are you using a table? If so put a rope under him just in front of the rear legs, and attach it to the cable above then he has to stand.

  8. #18

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    Interesting progress here. I started moving the bumper away slowly while he tries to pick up during the fetch, and that has worked like a charm to stop him from laying down. But over the last few days he stopped lunging for the bumper, and I've had to apply more and more pressure to get him to go for it at all. It's almost like he was regressing.

    Tonight something new happened, though. After our third or fourth fetch of the session, the dog just went nuts and started jumping and spinning trying to dislodge my hand from his collar, then he flopped onto his back (my hand still under his collar, but I couldn't get enough of a grip to stop him) and wrapped his forelegs around my arm. He reacted really strongly, snapping at the air (this is a mouthy dog, but never an aggressive one) and thrashing all his limbs if I tried to move his forelegs or tried to roll him back onto his feet. So, for a few seconds, we were just sort of stalemated there on the ground, him on his back with forelegs wrapped around my left arm, my left hand under his collar. I won't got into a lot of detail about what happened after that, but he ended back on his feet, on my terms and not his, and nobody got injured. He reacted that way twice more tonight, and on each subsequent time I became a little more brisk with my handling of the situation.

    Now here's the interesting part: after the third time we had it out, his whole demeanor changed for the positive. His responses to "fetch" became snappy again and he started lunging and showing a very sharp response to the command. He was so different that I gave him a few fun bumpers at the end of the session, and he ran for them like they were the last bumpers on earth, and came back bouncy and with his tail up. He's laying on my feet right now, catching a nap.
    Last edited by JNG; 06-24-2014 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #19
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    I'm glad he's doing good. Just as most of us suspected in this case you weren't using enough pressure. As I'm sure you learned, you don't have to increase by much but he was laying down because a FF session was like a day at the spa for him! A lot of new trainers are afraid of this thing "pressure". Instead of thinking of it that way, think of training at the gym with a friend. You are more effective because you challenge each other. Same thing here. Your job is to consistently challenge your dog in order to progress the dog and to show him that he's capable of doing things that he never thought that he could. By looking at it like this, you breed skill, success and confidence at the same time.

  10. #20
    Senior Member sdnordahl's Avatar
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    I had similar issues going through FF with my dog. Things were going great then they weren't. I tried backing off pressure first with no results then upped the pressure and that was the ticket. She finished FF nicely after that.
    Steven

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