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Thread: How long to use specific Pattern Blinds ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Default How long to use specific Pattern Blinds ?

    Title may be worded wrong, but I am wondering how long do ya'll use, or come back to specific pattern blinds you have established ? I have one field established with a 3 legged pattern, and have ran blind drills, and diversions on this pattern field atleast 2 times a week for a month and a half, and my pup knows the drill, and has no issues running like a pro on this field, But other than making me feel good, I am too the point that I see it's doing her no good anymore !

    I am trying to work on her initial lines, and holding lines, which she does well on the pattern blind field, but not good at all when we have worked on BB blinds, or walk out blinds.

    o my question is with a dog in the beginning/middle stages of transition, and for the lifetime of the dog, how often do you return back to a pattern blind field that the dog knows like its on dog house, and how often do you move to new areas and establish patterns ?

    I am starting the stages of cheating singles, and ready to work on carrying lines through factors, and plan on using the same concepts of establishing pattern blinds for this training as well !

    Just courious how ya'll utilize your pattern blinds ?
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Lassiter View Post
    ...o my question is with a dog in the beginning/middle stages of transition, and for the lifetime of the dog, how often do you return back to a pattern blind field that the dog knows like its on dog house, and how often do you move to new areas and establish patterns ?

    I am starting the stages of cheating singles, and ready to work on carrying lines through factors, and plan on using the same concepts of establishing pattern blinds for this training as well !

    Just courious how ya'll utilize your pattern blinds ?
    It will depend on your chosen program & general approach to pattern blind use; your goals and objectives for them. In my view, most trainers over use them. In my program PBs have an important, but limited use. Once a dog is reliable at lining up for 3 pre-established blinds (3-leg pattern), shows a positive response to verbal cue ("Dead bird" for example), and runs hard to each of them, I'm pretty much done with them. Those blinds will be about 150 yards long each.

    Some trainers don't use them at all. Some use them until the cows come home! I have better, and more efficient drill work for diversion mark work, so no need for that This may span about a month's time. Each dog is different, of course. Then we begin transitioning into a cold blind standard.

    Evan
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    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Thanks for your response ! I guess i'm asking once I have used this particular pattern blind, is it good practice to move to another field, and teach another leg incorporating things like factors, and terrain, and cover to teach lining through these, or is there better ways to go by teaching these ?

    I am looking to improve my dog holding lines longer ! Once kicked off she holds good for 20 yards or so but then starts taking a bad line! I correct by handling, but also want to keep her momentum rolling so I don't want to over handle, and apply to many whistle sits at this early stage in her transition! And figured pattern blinds was a good way to keep her lines tight while still accomplishing fighting factors ????

    Just looking for advice, or drills to keep her rolling and improve her lining !
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

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    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    It will depend on your chosen program & general approach to pattern blind use; your goals and objectives for them. In my view, most trainers over use them. In my program PBs have an important, but limited use. Once a dog is reliable at lining up for 3 pre-established blinds (3-leg pattern), shows a positive response to verbal cue ("Dead bird" for example), and runs hard to each of them, I'm pretty much done with them. Those blinds will be about 150 yards long each.

    Some trainers don't use them at all. Some use them until the cows come home! I have better, and more efficient drill work for diversion mark work, so no need for that This may span about a month's time. Each dog is different, of course. Then we begin transitioning into a cold blind standard.

    Evan
    This is basically the same thing I do, but with a few tweaks. I train in the cue, dead bird and when I drop my hand that means yes that what I want, during FTP. I watch to see if it has transferred when doing patterns.

    Also, I bring them back to the yard for wagon wheels before cold blinds. Here I will train in the no command ( with the stick ) and cement in the cue yes, ( no pressure ) when I drop my hand and work on my pivot. There are many ways to do this? This is how I do It.

    Keith

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    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    My choice is to never run pattern blinds.
    "You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote:

    I am looking to improve my dog holding lines longer ! Once kicked off she holds good for 20 yards or so but then starts taking a bad line! I correct by handling, but also want to keep her momentum rolling so I don't want to over handle, and apply to many whistle sits at this early stage in her transition! And figured pattern blinds was a good way to keep her lines tight while still accomplishing fighting factors ????

    Just looking for advice, or drills to keep her rolling and improve her lining !


    I have come to the realization, that the bolden sentences in the OP's postis a misconception that many of us mere mortal make.

    I have been instructed to work at a goal of running 1000 qual level blinds to prepare for serious blind work.
    I think after a good number of long blinds, and a handler trying for consistency in thier expectations and standards, the dog will NOT loose momentum,,and their lines eventually straighten out for quite a distance.

    I wont use patterns again! I believe now, that a solid amount of time spent in the yard on Pile work, T and TT, then going straight to 3 peats and getting the dog use to a LOT of whistles, and Lots of handling, IN THE LONG RUN ,,,makes a better blind running dog.

    The dogs I have have had in the past that i did patterns with, came off of the patterns with not a lot of whistles in them,and really not very good at being handled.. but they could run confidently to a known or taught destination...



    I am a Rank Armature ,,so buyer beware..

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    Last edited by MooseGooser; 06-22-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Think how long it will take you to run 1000 blinds running 3 blinds a day!

    I have posted this link a number of times, but I really like the training tip from Mr Farmer..

    http://www.dannyfarmer.com/dannyfarm...20Farmer_1.pdf
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 06-22-2014 at 09:25 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

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    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    I'm on the other side of the fence. I use them. Trained and mentor by FT folks.

    Lardite regards.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Goldenboy's Avatar
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    Love pattern blinds, think they're a great tool to advance a dog through a range of experiences. Once through the various stages of diversions, past fall, under arc, poison birds, etc, I then move on and go to cold blinds and teach concepts by running multiple cold blinds during each session that employ the desired concept. Slow and steady, don't ask for too much too soon, follow the dog out on his early cold blinds to maintain control.

    I would use a five blind pattern field for an accomplished all-age dog who could be a little self-directed at times. Would run him on the different blinds, stop him in route, and then handle him all over the field to any of the other blinds. Would go back to this field every year, sometimes more than a few times a year. Helped to keep his head screwed on for blinds, most of the time.

    Good luck.
    Mark

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    Mac you have a great question and you see the different answers.
    IMHO and being that amateur PB are for confidence and momentem.
    Start shorter and when your 85% there move your line back. Dont worry too much about the line. Dont Nag !
    When you and pooch are getting there add a chair then later add a person, them later tighten the chair and then the person to your line. Eventually you get to poison birds , throw away from line then toward , then under the arc.

    Teach one thing at time and be patient. You could stay on a PB for a long time. Dogs could get bored so dont overdo and mix in marks. Be careful in this heat.

    There are different ways- above is how we do and we have a pup doing this right now. Revisit a wagon wheel and the tee to reinforce your stops. Make cold blind shorter and simple till dog understands. Patterns B are where you teach setup and que words. When things go wrong, step back and simplify
    Hope it helps
    Dk

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