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Thread: bill hillman or mike lardy

  1. #1
    Junior Member MBellow74's Avatar
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    Default bill hillman or mike lardy

    Looking to purchase new dvd's and can't decide which set to go with. For those of you that have watched both, What are the differences in the two? are the guys dvd's similar ? I'm sure they is already this post floating around but I'm new to the site..thanks!!!
    Last edited by MBellow74; 06-25-2014 at 06:33 PM.

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    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
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    Both! If I were starting with a puppy, I'd buy Hillman's puppy video and then, start with Lardy about the time I got to force fetch.

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    Senior Member Jerry S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles C. View Post
    Both! If I were starting with a puppy, I'd buy Hillman's puppy video and then, start with Lardy about the time I got to force fetch.
    Or continue through Hillmann's FF and then on to Lardy.
    I read so much about Hillmann's puppy method but less on his FF method. His method is so different than the traditional ear pinch but is discussed very little.

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    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Hillmann has a whole DVD series to get you completely through the yard now. It contains excellent basics for any gundog or competition dog. I follow his methods for all of my dogs now.

    The Puppy DVD will show you how to thoroughly teach them the 'meaning' of sit. It will help multitudes in preventing creeping and noise by teaching them 'patience'. Don't take shortcuts and rush the process though!!

    The Fundamentals DVDs will teach them basics on land and water.

    This set of 3 DVD contains all of the tools you will need to create a 'balanced retriever' with a solid foundation.
    Last edited by TBell; 06-26-2014 at 07:03 AM. Reason: clarify Fundamentals

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    Member Gerald Kelley's Avatar
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    I really liked Hillmans puppy DVD. I didn't really care for his Fetch dvd though.

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    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    I think the Fetch DVD gives you an option over the traditional 'force fetch' methods which don't work on some dogs, especially non-labrador breeds.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TBell View Post
    I think the Fetch DVD gives you an option over the traditional 'force fetch' methods which don't work on some dogs, especially non-labrador breeds.....
    The DVD doesn't put it out there like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry S. View Post
    Or continue through Hillmann's FF and then on to Lardy.
    I read so much about Hillmann's puppy method but less on his FF method. His method is so different than the traditional ear pinch but is discussed very little.
    I've been watching the videos. Basically, fetch is taught by getting the dog excited for the bumper and praise until the dog does it well and then it is reinforced with low nicks on a ecollar. Basically, that is all there is to it. I haven't gotten into the fundamentals DVD yet but as far as I can tell that is all there is to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles C. View Post
    Both! If I were starting with a puppy, I'd buy Hillman's puppy video and then, start with Lardy about the time I got to force fetch.
    I read in another post that indirect pressure doesn't work unless there is traditional force fetch. I basically don't know what I am doing because I have only played around with three dogs and didn't have a lot of success with the first two. I like the results I am getting so far using the Hillmann Puppy DVD. It is fixing some issues I had with the first two, and it gives me things to do with an energetic puppy. One thing I wanted to point out is that if someone is truely following the Hillmann DVD step by step, they are working on teaching hold and fetch much earlier than the Lardy Flow Chart. I'm going to start teaching "hold" and my puppy is only 3 1/2 months but time frames are different and mine is probally a bit too wild still. If someone doesn't use some of the Hillmann stuff they have to do things like in the Merten's video until the puppy is 4 months old. I want to add one more thing. The puppy is collar conditioned differently with Hillman than Lardy. In Hillman it is light nicks somewhat regardless of whether the dog is sitting or not. That is not what is in the Lardy video and it can likely be done with a three month old puppy. I don't know how well that would incorporate into Lardy collar conditioning.
    Last edited by DL; 06-26-2014 at 08:25 AM. Reason: added and corrected

  10. #10
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Every dog is different and I know of many dogs that 'traditional force fetch' has ruined. Bill's method of 'Fetch' is easy to follow and keeps up the momentum. You can use it alone or in combination with 'traditional force fetch' which is what I do.

    I'm in 'force fetch' with two pups from my last litter right now. I wish I had made a video of each because they are so different. One is easy and has taken each step of traditional hold and force fetch well. The other is becoming a clammer with the 'force' so I am using Bill's method of fetch to resolve those issues.

    Lardy's flow chart is just a guide, again every dog is different. Hillmann's method allows you to gradually teach your dog each step without him realizing he is even being 'taught', and the dog easily transitions into the next step. Lardy's method is more regimented. Lardy's flow chart says no collar until 6 months old, but with a wild young dog full of drive this can be too late. I've seen it with several of my high drive labs.

    You can begin your pup with the Merten's video at 7 weeks with food as a reward and learning tool. Many new trainers have perfected that method. Then transition into Hillmann's puppy video, Land Fundamentals and then Water Fundamentals videos. This will give you a solid foundation in which you can use for a lifetime of retriever work.

    For those wanting to go into transition and advanced work, you can continue on with any multitude of drill work written and recorded by various well known authors. You can spend hours watching and ton's of money of all of those, but the best time spent is throwing birds for someone who has had success in the game Many of them would be glad to help you!

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