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Thread: isolate steadyness or just part of training quality marks?

  1. #11
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Dave,

    That is very close to Hillmann's Traffic Cop method which I use on all of my young dogs now. I believe it is the best way to instill the 'sit' command.

    The only difference is that he mixes happy bumpers with the rigid obedience letting them have a 'recess' if you will. It teaches them to 'turn it on' and immediately be able to 'turn it off'. That is Bill's 'philosophy' for the day.

    One more thought.......just my thinking though.......if your dog is not steady, you don't need to be working on quality marks, you need to be working on sit like Dave mentioned until he is. That is steady to an easy hand thrown bumper in the yard, then up the excitement gradually until you finally have a gun station, bird thrower and noise from the gun station. Anything less is asking for trouble!

  2. #12
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooke View Post
    I was told about the same thing last weekend after my dog that I had 8/10 confidence
    Going into test Would sit. He said there's two types dogs that are broke, and dogs that will break. Which I feel is pretty decent advice. And I do think now that I prob shouldn't have beenpushing my 6& 1/2 month old pup and expecting her to run in a hunter level NAHRA test. But its too late and iI didn't get her stopped before she got the go bird. I'm a beleaver in always keeping a high standard. And if they flinch no bird back to the holding blind. I'm about done with walking fetch and will be collar conditioning soon. But my real question was aimed at getting some new ideas on small drill to reinforce steadyness not as a command but as a dissaplend(sp)
    6 1/2 mos is still a baby so I would not use pressure other than a firm "NO, sit." Put pup's butt back on the ground maybe a light thump under the chin. As pup matures and shows you she knows what sit means you can extend the command. I also think steadiness at events starts in the holding blind. Sit pup in the blind while guns and birds are going off. Reinforce pup when good, correct when not. When rock steady in the blind walk back where pup can still see you. Correct any movement. When that's ingrained walk to the front of the blind. If pup moves, just "No, here, sit" walk her back in position. When she's steady call her out of the blind sit at heel and if steady reward with a short bumper toss. When that's bullet proof go through the same drill but have someone shoot and toss multiple bumpers/birds no more than 25 yds in front of you and pup. Any movement, back to the holding blind. rinse, repeat. The reward is the retrieve, but only when fully steady.

    You can reinforce "sit" in any circumstance. Sit at doorways and stair and only proceed when called. Sit at the food bowl and don't eat until released. sit when meeting a stranger and no petting unless steady. These are little "drills" that not only reinforce the command but make life with pup much easier on you both.
    I had my pup steady at 6 mos but w/ only verbal and an light leash pressure. That's not too early to teach, just be easy on the pressure applied.

    Good luck with your pup.
    Last edited by Good Dogs; 06-28-2014 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #13
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    She's ahead of a lot of 6mo olds, but its cause we put the time in. Not trying to say she's specisl. I was able to run her as JH test dog in our akc test when she was 5 months. She would have got a pass for sure, tuff test to for a jr. Live water flyer straight out the gate on pond with alot of grass clumps and 6 outa 14 dogs didn't pick up first mark. She knows sit. We've shot live flyers on water and with in 40 yards of her on land and she sat like a champ. I did the sit before she eats thing since the day she got home, and door ways. Few days ago we had few live chucker left from NAHRA test so three of us went and shot em outa box launcher and I was able to get a good whistle just second before launch and she stayed steady, bird shot, hit ground and I released her on count of two. Today as she does 80% of the time she ran from same line as the big dogs(on land, water iI usually run where I need to so not to create cheating habits) and she rocked the eraser double/ memory mark under go bird arc concept we were teaching. When dogs with master passes under them were checking up and slowing down she didn't even flinch. She was as steady as one could ask; were just getting to walking fetch so e collar is on her just for sake of her wearing it, transmitters prob dead. And I was able to heal/here her a few degrees each time to watch next mark(I had my healing stick with me as always but she gave no reason for me to use it. But I train in a group multiple times a week, but I can't seem to get her jacked up as much as she was test mourning. I knew it as soon as we left the truck headed to first holding blind. Is the answer once I get through collar cond. Naturally with high standards it'll clean its self up? I was more or less looking to see if there was a drill I could be doing to help instill the fact her ass moves when i let her. Until we progress through cc. I'm looking to make sure I'm doing everything on my end. To make everything go as easy and smoothly as possible. Thanks for all the input keep it coming!

    Thanks Nick
    Last edited by Rooke; 06-28-2014 at 03:21 PM.
    I run tests to prepare my huntin Buddy To HUNT, If a hunting dog cant RECOVER A CRIPPLE its just another test Dog!!!
    McNew River Bottom Dixie JH

  4. #14
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    The collar is only an extension of your lead line and heeling stick. No need to get pup through CC before teaching steady and "sit means sit." In fact pup should have those basics down pat before introducing collar corrections. Basic obedience.

  5. #15
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    Well she ran 4 sets of doubles this mourning with gunners calling and blank guns. Didn't even act like she was tempted too. Then this evening we ran three double set ups but first one I ran as singles. Which were winger thrown. And was pleased with the line manners all around. So I think not finishing up walking fetch and moving right into cc , would be kinda wasting time. I need that tool to get started on cheating singles. The day she broke she was jacked up as soon as I got her from box and put lead on. I tried taking as much time as I could getting to the line. But she was basically pulling me. Which is out of norm as well. I can let her out of kennel at lunch and walk her off lead down the street to a lil lot and she's usually pretty wound but she'll heal all the way there. Could it be that the maturity is just not all the way there yet and circumstances got to her. Cause I can't seem to get her near as jacked up as that day.
    I run tests to prepare my huntin Buddy To HUNT, If a hunting dog cant RECOVER A CRIPPLE its just another test Dog!!!
    McNew River Bottom Dixie JH

  6. #16
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    If a dog cannot sit still how can it mark. Sure perhaps the dog can get a general idea, but if it not steady how can it pinpoint, what happends when you start throwing in multiples, factors, what if a car is crossing a road, or something else etc. A dog should be steady until it's sent, reguardless of what else is going on. Thus Steadiness for me is an alway situation, if a pup is too young to be corrected or your looking for something else out of the training, the dog wears a tab, to ensure he doesn't leave before he's supposed to. IF he's older he's expected to remeber the mark after being corrected. A dog can be expected to wait, making a puppy wait develop self-control. There's nothing wrong with self-control, and making a dog take the time to actually think, about what they're doing; it helps develop memory, helps them to figure situations, and ensures you have control, should you need to take over. Give me a thinking dog over a run-away but that could just be my preference. Still with most dogs it's not if they are going to break but when, training is different than testing-trialing, good standards during training helps you maintain control, in other situations; and maybe they might at least feel a tad guilty when they break, on the last flyer in the last series of a test
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 06-29-2014 at 12:12 AM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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  7. #17
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    Agree 100% let alone the biggest reason of all to be steady; Safety. A dog not where he was told to be when shots called is bad news...... don't ask. I agree with 90% of what has been said with out it don't move on, you have nothing, standard, and prob the hardest consistency!
    This dog well on her way. She broke once in a test I shouldn't have had her in, if she sat she would have rocked the test. Maturity wise she was not ready. And being a test I was not able to apply a proper correction. That ones on me! I guess the reason I started the thread is I was looking for a way to really reinforce steadyness with out having to try and create situations where the need for a correction is likely. Because she's really not an unsteady dog. And I wanna be damn sure it stays that way. I'm excited to watch this pup become a dog and to where and what new experiences she's gonna drag me into. Gotta love the ride! Thanks everyone and hope all ur dogs never have an unsteady moment. But they will and that's the game. Good luck all the rest of the summer!!!
    I run tests to prepare my huntin Buddy To HUNT, If a hunting dog cant RECOVER A CRIPPLE its just another test Dog!!!
    McNew River Bottom Dixie JH

  8. #18
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    I go through stages as my pup ages into a dog. Very young pup 7 weeks to 4-5 months, I keep the lessons separate, sitting, heeling, post office are just short fun lessons. At some point I have a buddy throw marks, starting short on cut lawn, then extending as the pups ability allows. I hold the small puppy in front of me, me kneeling with both hands holding the pup up and facing the throw, then release as soon as the bumper hits the ground. As the pup grows larger, I switch to having the pups sit at my side, but holding on to a short lead attached to the collar. As we proceed through basics and after collar conditioning I put it all together by holding the dog to a high standard of steadiness off lead.

  9. #19
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooke View Post
    And I do think now that I prob shouldn't have beenpushing my 6& 1/2 month old pup and expecting her to run in a hunter level NAHRA test. But its too late and iI didn't get her stopped before she got the go bird. I'm a beleaver in always keeping a high standard. And if they flinch no bird back to the holding blind. I'm about done with walking fetch and will be collar conditioning soon. But my real question was aimed at getting some new ideas on small drill to reinforce steadyness not as a command but as a dissaplend(sp)
    At 6 1/2 months old ,mine are encouraged to run in on a mark
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Depends on dog. If dog is high energy and I think needs control, I would work on obedience. If dog is not so excited about retrieving, then I would back off on obedience and start working on building the excitement for the retrieve.
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