I'm getting a new puppy soon so i'm pouring over ingredients and websites and driving to stores and asking what vendors they use so I can research what they carry so I know what is available for special order. I'm starting to wonder if it's all worth it? Several puppy formulas are really similar to a high performance blend. Some like victor and eagle pack list a couple formulas as both puppy and adult or puppy and high performance blend. So is it worth finding a strictly puppy formula when so many high performance blends are so similar? If I remember correctly you want to feed a food that doesn't have to much calcium so bones don't grow to fast. Other than that i'm not sure there is a large difference from high energy/performance blends with more protein and fat to "puppy" blends.
Just talked to a Golden breeder as I am keeping one from my litter. She as well as many other breeders only feed adult food. No puppy food ever. They say it makes their bones grow too fast. I had heard this before and always took my dogs off puppy food around 4 months of age but now the recommendation is no puppy food at all. Has anyone else heard this or follow this?
Many who feed Purina ProPlan Performance to their adult dogs, wean the pups directly onto Performance as it has been designed as an "All Life Stages" food.
I fed Fromms Large Breed Puppy till 8 months then Dr Tim's. I fed the puppy because I read it was formulated to avoid the bones growing too fast. She is a tall lean pup and seems to have turned out fine. I was more concerned with Omega levels which are essential for brain and eye development.
Just my experience which is worth about 2 cents.
Steve
I just got a pup and am feeding Dr Tims pursuit. Im mixing with the proplan and weening her off to just Dr. Tims. I dont know alot and this is my first pup but I have done alot of research on Dr. Tims.
I have always feed Purina Pro Plan Large Puppy until 1 yr. Never had a problem. My last few females have been 75 lbs . New pup will be about lthe same size.
My advice is to feed what has worked for your breeder's lines if they are indeed long timers. What works for one breeder may be a disaster for another. Anne
My opinion FWIW,is to feed a LG BREED puppy food. I use Eukanuba. I take them off at 8 mos and switch to whichever adult formula is best for that individual dog, whether its the Performance or adult maintanance .
It depends on who you talk to. For myself, I want my people feeding the ProPlan Focus until 3-5 months, then switch to the ProPlan adult 26/16 until the pup is about a year. Then they can switch to PPP. I know some breeders who wean directly on the PPP.
For my dogs, I've found that the the adult 26/16 slows down the rapid growth they hit at 3 months and they grow more evenly. I am not a believer in large breed foods, since Labs are not considered a large breed.
I fed the Eukanuba LB puppy food for awhile and saw some things in my growing puppies I didn't like, plus I believe at .85% calcium, it's not enough. Someone in the industry told me they saw a lot of stress fractures in dogs that were being fed the ELBP and that, plus the growth things I was seeing, was enough for me.
For my dogs, I've found that the the adult 26/16 slows down the rapid growth they hit at 3 months and they grow more evenly. I am not a believer in large breed foods, since Labs are not considered a large breed.
I fed the Eukanuba LB puppy food for awhile and saw some things in my growing puppies I didn't like, plus I believe at .85% calcium, it's not enough. Someone in the industry told me they saw a lot of stress fractures in dogs that were being fed the ELBP and that, plus the growth things I was seeing, was enough for me.
Back to what I said above. And though Labs may not be a "large" breed, they do tend to grow fast, at least field lines in particular do.
I (like Billie) have used Euk LBP w/ great success here for at least 15 yrs now.
What I recommend is that we keep puppies lean as they grow as a heavy puppy is much more apt to have issues than a thinner one. Those issues are elbow and hip dysplasia. Either the Kinesis or Pursuit is fine with the dogs you speak of as a food fed to a puppy. It is all about how much you feed that can have an effect. The calcium/phosphorus is appropriate for any age dog, be it 4 months or 4 years. With energy dense foods you need to go light with the amount fed as they go through their growth times, say 4-12 months. Once that is done you can feed whatever and it will not affect the bone growth. Both foods are appropriate for large or small breeds. Giant breeds like danes are a little different.
Here is an interesting fact; The cal/phos for a large breed dog can be fed to a small breed with no problems but a small breed can have a calcium/phosphorus ratio 4 times that and still be OK. Why not just have one food for both based on what a large breed needs?
Dr. Tim's Dog food is feed trial tested on all life stages.. the Gold Standard... Puppy foods are a gimmick... for the most part... the reason they are is if pet foods were all as good as Dr. Tim's they would be made ALS... suitible for any age dog.. then feed to the rib cage...
If you ever have to think of switching a diet, or try a new one on a pup... you won't go wrong with one made by a Veterinarian, who sled dog races, and puts quality ingredients into his products.
The meat meals used in diets determines the correct ratios... each maker of foods will have their own opinions... Dr. tim decribes it best... do not over feed and you do not have to worry... by six months old every dog / puppy starts to self regulate the minerals in his body..
If you feed a feed trial tested ALS food it worked on pups... the health and excretions were checked daily... only one study ever done, and was on Great Danes, saw that over 1.5 Cal , caused long bones to grow too fast...
It is actually the ASH content total any pet owner needs to be concerned over... the higher it gets the more minerals that make the kidneys work harder to excrete excess or also prevent absorption of nutrients in the gut... poorer diets have high ASH as they use more ground up bones your dog will never utilize...
I wean our pups onto an “all life stages food” called Earthborn Holistic (Coastal Catch formula)... the calcium level is lower than some “puppy” labeled foods and ... my new puppy owners can use this food for life if they choose. Some of my adult dogs eat it as well... I like this food very much.
What goal are we trying to achieve with the food we are feeding our pups? One make sure they have the necessary nutrition to grow. Two choose the food that accomplishes this goal without the pup growing too fast.
So, my question is do you run the risk of having your pup grow to fast by feeding high protein diets (30%+)? I am not trying to high jack the thread I really just dont know the answer to this.
My inclination is to pick a food that results in steady growth so the pups bones and joints keep up.
Calcium/phosphorus ratios for a large breed pup should be under 1.5/1, preferably closer to 1.2/1. This would be the same for a giant breed. Small breeds can tolerate better than a 3/1 ca/phos with no issues for some reason.
Personally I have raised many a husky litter on Momentum which is a 35/25 diet and many in Alaska have done the same. Both distance and sprint sled dogs have been raised on this and have had very good careers. Using a high energy food like this requires a close eye to keep them from getting chubby which can lead to issues and thus my recommendation is to use the 30/20 or less for pups to keep it simple and safe.
I've fed a decent quality adult food to my pups from the start, along with many other Chesapeake breeders. Chesapeakes, for some reason, seem prone to knuckling if they're fed too rich a diet so I look for something in the range of 15/25% protein/fat. I suspect Dr. Tim's husky pups can tolerate a higher ratio because dogs living in cold climates use more energy keeping warm. I've had many puppy buyers call me in a panic because their pups started knuckling at 9 or 10 weeks; this is where the bone grows faster than the tendons causing the legs to bow, sometimes drastically, and they lurch around like drunken sailors. Apparently not painful but pretty awful looking. In every case it was because they put the pup on a puppy food. Dropping the fat/protein levels and adding cod liver oil and vit. C to the diet has always worked. Now granted in the past 10 years dog foods have gotten better, especially the puppy formula, but if you look at the contents and ingredients it's almost identical to a good quality feed.
Julie, did you mean to write 15/25 protein/fat or 25 (protein)/15(fat)? I've had the same issues pop up w/ some of my lab pups if they had too much Ca++ in their diet.
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