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Thread: Supreme Court Ruling on Contraception Mandate

  1. #51
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Yardly and Franco changed my mind on a few things and so has Ken. I can't stand living a contradiction ,,so I weigh out idea's as they are presented,,compare them to what I have learned from the word of God and do a recheck on my heart and attitude. So yes sometimes people sy things that make me reconsider my position. Yet over all Politicians are greedy power hungry individuals . Who serve themselves and break core life principles
    Sorry about that Pete, I hope I haven't led you astray.

    It would be nice if we hadn't lost so many posters or if we had more posters here on POTUS than the usual 20 or so.

    Politics in the USA is not black or white and for many, it takes too much effort to examine the grey areas.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  2. #52
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Back to Hobby Lobby, a bit of clarification to illustrate how the liberals molded the debate on the issue:
    Hobby Lobby itself provides coverage of 16 different types of contraception to its employees.
    The Green family has no moral objection to the use of 16 of 20 preventive contraceptives required in the mandate, and Hobby Lobby will continue its longstanding practice of covering these preventive contraceptives for its employees. However, the Green family cannot provide or pay for four potentially life-threatening drugs and devices. These drugs include Plan B and Ella, the so-called morning-after pill and the week-after pill. Covering these drugs and devices would violate their deeply held religious belief that life begins at the moment of conception, when an egg is fertilized.
    Henlee, because the companies are family companies who run their businesses according to their faith, for example, closing on Sundays in a society that practically demands that businesses be open 7 days a week. It would be quite difficult for a large corporation to prove that same devotion to a principle of faith. If it could somehow do that, then, yes, it might be treated like Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Furniture.

    If I deny a blood transfusion, the person denied has no alternative. If I deny 4 out of 20 birth control options, 16 options still remain. There should be no verdict based on what religious tenet is involved, but rather on whether how burdensome or dangerous it is to the life of another individual. Actually, this has nothing to due with contraception ... it is about abortion, i.e. drugs that destroy a fertilized egg. Further, the companies involved do NOT discriminate against those who disagree with their religious beliefs. Any employee is free to use those drugs at their own expense.

    Perhaps to honor all beliefs, there should be O-care plans that do offer limited benefits? Then those who wish to employ abortion or drugs to induce it could purchase a "supplemental" plan to do so.

    Another key to the decision was about how "burdensome" it would be to practice their religious beliefs. $475 million a year was deemed pretty burdensome.

    I might expect that sooner or later someone will challenge Obamacare on the issue of abortion as it pertains to the law as well. There was mention that in some states there was no policy on some state exchanges that did not cover abortion. So anyone who objects to abortion on religious grounds is still compelled to pay premiums that will fund someone else's abortion. Through subsidies given to premiums through Federal funds, so is everybody else. Regardless of my or your position on abortion, we know that many have strong religious objections to it. And not just Christians. I suspect that eventually that issue will come before the SC as well.

    I'm also waiting to see a Muslim use a "religious belief" defense in a prosecution for an "honor killing."
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Has anyone seen or provided an answer to the first question raised in this statement? If this is about religious freedom of a private person (aka corporation) why did the scotus narrow it to coverage of contraception only?. They went out of their way to say that religious freedom only applies to contraception.
    That's because the suit was not about contraception. Hobby Lobby has contraception included in its health plan. What they objected to was the requirement that they fund abortion drugs. The supporters of the ACA refer to these as contraceptives in order to cloud the issue. Anyone who calls these contraceptives is either lying or lacking in knowledge. I'd prefer to think the folks here are in the latter category.

    Drugs that cause abortion would be very much against some folks religious underpinnings.

    Answer the question?
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    I'm also waiting to see a Muslim use a "religious belief" defense in a prosecution for an "honor killing."
    There has been one already, perhaps more. The one I'm referring to was an Iraqi who ran his daughter over for being to Western. I don't know what the verdict was.
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    There is a contradiction in itself, someone who quotes Bible scripture being influenced by someone who is a self proclaimed Agnostic....to each their own...looks like I was wrong
    Its only a contradiction to those who have the same watered down logic as you do. Let me give you an example
    Since Franco is a constitutionalist and a jeffersonian and because he is a self proclaimed agnostic I should be anti constitution.
    The reality is that constitution is a Godly document because it parallels the written word. It doesn't matter whether Jefferson believed in God or not,, he helped put together a near perfect document for man to aspire to live up to. God wants freedom,liberty and justice for all also,,,but what Franco really made change my thinking enough to influence what I have learned after over 30 years of studying can be found in the early verses of genesis 2,,,something I had missed for all that time. he helped me resolve some gray area's. And he did that by stimulating thought.
    People who can't seem to change their mind even when whats causing the problem is staring them right in the face have a very huge ego.



    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  6. #56
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Tommy Jefferson was da man!

    And, if the Rabbi Jesus were alive today living in the USA, he would certainly be a Libertarian. Why? Because the Libertarian Party is the ONLY Political Party that embraces Liberty and equal justice for all. The LP is all about taking responsibility for one's actions. Unlike the Dems who want to steal the labors of the hard working for redistribution and unlike the Repubs who steal so that they can deliver subsidies to their campaign sponsors. The LP represents the 'little man" in a country that discriminates against the working man!

    We are the Party of The People, For The People and by The People. Not the Party of Special Interest or Socialism.


    Though Jefferson single handily wrote the Declaration Of Independence holed up in a boarding room one weekend, he was in France when The Constitution was written. Yet, his earlier writings inspired much that was eventually put in The Constitution.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-01-2014 at 04:08 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Its only a contradiction to those who have the same watered down logic as you do. Let me give you an example
    Since Franco is a constitutionalist and a jeffersonian and because he is a self proclaimed agnostic I should be anti constitution.
    The reality is that constitution is a Godly document because it parallels the written word. It doesn't matter whether Jefferson believed in God or not,, he helped put together a near perfect document for man to aspire to live up to. God wants freedom,liberty and justice for all also,,,but what Franco really made change my thinking enough to influence what I have learned after over 30 years of studying can be found in the early verses of genesis 2,,,something I had missed for all that time. he helped me resolve some gray area's. And he did that by stimulating thought.
    People who can't seem to change their mind even when whats causing the problem is staring them right in the face have a very huge ego.



    Pete
    Well said, Pete
    It sometimes can be difficult to make a cogent response to an idiotic post or poster

  8. #58
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    1. Tommy Jefferson was da man!

    And, 2. if the Rabbi Jesus were alive today living in the USA,
    1. jefferson is the man!

    2. the rabbi is alive today and living in the usa!
    john mccallie

  9. #59
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    1. jefferson is the man!

    2. the rabbi is alive today and living in the usa!
    Touche

    I thought that might have been him last week in Columbus Oh for the National Libertarian Convention!
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  10. #60
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    That's because the suit was not about contraception. Hobby Lobby has contraception included in its health plan. What they objected to was the requirement that they fund abortion drugs. The supporters of the ACA refer to these as contraceptives in order to cloud the issue. Anyone who calls these contraceptives is either lying or lacking in knowledge. I'd prefer to think the folks here are in the latter category.

    Drugs that cause abortion would be very much against some folks religious underpinnings.

    Answer the question?
    Eric...nice try and good comments....but Henry V get's all his knowledge and information from the Liberal Media!

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