The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 614151617 LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 164

Thread: Utah Police that shot dog - Now Public Outrage

  1. #151
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Cornish Utah
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    there are degrees of lethal? well crap, I had no idea



    Don't be a dumb ass you know what I mean. You have much more control over the baton than the bullet as to whether it would be lethal or not. I don't care what anyone says that dog didn't need to be shot.
    I know of two labs that were chasing domestic geese in an off duty highway patrol officers yard. Both dogs were shot and killed. Did he have the right to do so, probably but should he have. I say no same as the dog in question in this thread. Like someone else said this incident and this thread are why I like my dogs, they are not idiots like people, if the shoe fits wear it!

  2. #152
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Linden, VA
    Posts
    1,725

    Default

    There is a statistic out now that say's cops are killing dogs every 98 minutes on average http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/police-ta...ry-98-minutes/
    Southland Dixe's Hunter Boy, JH (Hunter)
    Triple J's Hotta Habanera Mo Betta, (Mo)
    Freezeland's Carbon Squared, (CC)

  3. #153
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldieretriever50 View Post
    Sunnydee I used part of your quote but in no way is this directly solely at you nor is it attack on what you posted. I merely used it for context and a introduction. Please take no personal offense.


    I agree it's sad when a pet is killed. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

    Where is the publics national outcry for the tragic and senseless killing of this beautiful human being. An engaged father of four who was shot in his parked patrol car on his birthday.

    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...265945981.html

    Why haven't protesters around the nation taken to the streets with their signs "shake hands not shoot" and demanded the heads of those responsible. Why isn't the public crying foul and conspiracy theory if those involved get anything less than the death penalty? Why aren't Facebook pages being created and tweets being shared #stopshootingcops. Why isn't there a thread on retriever.net talking about how sad this is and everyone wished the public would stop shooting cops with guns? Why aren't people saying "if your going to hurt a cop please use something less than lethal. Throw a donut at them from your pocket or something, use a stick, but please avoid using a gun and shooting right away". Aren't cops part of families just like dogs? Do we need to have a cellphone video posted online by the family to get the public as fired up about this as the Utah dog shooting? Why aren't u crying out that the officers constitutional rights have been violated? He has a right to live doesn't he?

    I got involved in this thread because the Utah cop was being cut down, judged, and crucified without all the facts being known and a jury trial was taking place on this forum without all the evidence presented before the court. Why arent you all doing the same with the Gary, Indiana incident? Maybe because the investigation hasn't been finished and you don't know all the facts? Or maybe you haven't even heard about this incident. You had to have. I can't imagine a dog getting shot by a cop in Utah would get more news media, internet, and social media attention than a cop being killed on duty and found dead in his patrol car with shell casings scattered around. Ok ill concede to the fact that the Utah incident took place several days ago and the Gary incident happened this weekend. So we should see a change in focus once more people hear about the Gary incident right? Certainly the public will consider the Utah incident second rate to Gary right?

    If the investigation finds the Utah cop was wrong then he was wrong and he will have to face the music. I've said that all along. But really....we have bigger problems to deal with people. And there are certainly other issues that are more deserving of the attention and our time.
    I want to repeat my earlier remarks that don't like a rush to judgement without all the facts of the story. BUT:

    You ask why the public outcry over the killing of a family dog while there is not similar outcry over the senseless killing of a cop sitting in his patrol car. Possibly it is because there is no one rushing to the defense of the cop killer and speculating on his possible “right” to do so, as in the case of the dog in Utah.


    This whole conversation has spun WAAAY off the point, from the original question of good/poor judgement, to the legality of entering the yard, to the “right” of the cop to defend his life and limb. Keep it real. You are trying to make the situation sound like a swat team drug bust in inner city Detroit. It was not. I cannot imagine why there would have been the slightest degree of fear or tension on the part of an officer searching for a missing child.


    I have been in similar confrontations with dogs more threatening than a fat Weim on numerous occasions, as I’m sure others have as well, and have always been able to diffuse the situation with no harm to myself nor the dog. This was not a pack of Rots in the backyard of a crack house. I can’t believe the cop did not have a chance to back away. Even with the possibility of a bite on the ankle, there was likely no justification to react as he did.


    As to the 150+ posts on RTF, it could be the result of 2 or 3 folks turning the question into one of the cop’s life being in danger and his “right” to defend himself. Had that not occurred, this thread would have had a couple dozen posts and been done.


    The cop’s taped comments did not help either … “simple as it gets”, business as usual.


    How long have you been a cop, if I might ask? In my experience, I have found those with your attitude are the young, gung-ho rookies out to be a hero. Those with more time on the street have usually become wiser and more adept at handling domestic situations, which this was.


    JS
    Last edited by JS; 07-07-2014 at 10:27 AM.
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  4. #154
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,408

    Default

    Thanks Freezeland. I hate that our law enforcement agencies are receiving such nasty and hateful emails. But unfortunetly it also appears that is the only way to get their attention. Maybe the SLC Police Ch should be sent to Rains Co. TX for a lesson on policing from the Sheriff.
    I remember when my kids were little and we were in a small town , the police were proactive in trying to be a part of the community . Officers in patrol cars would stop and talk to the neighborhood kids and handout Pokemon cards.
    Now I get the impression that the police view the citizens in an entirely different manner.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  5. #155
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    11,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    .....I remember when my kids were little and we were in a small town , the police were proactive in trying to be a part of the community . Officers in patrol cars would stop and talk to the neighborhood kids and handout Pokemon cards.
    Now I get the impression that the police view the citizens in an entirely different manner.
    Ayup,
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  6. #156
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldieretriever50 View Post
    Sunnydee I used part of your quote but in no way is this directly solely at you nor is it attack on what you posted. I merely used it for context and a introduction. Please take no personal offense.


    I agree it's sad when a pet is killed. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

    Where is the publics national outcry for the tragic and senseless killing of this beautiful human being. An engaged father of four who was shot in his parked patrol car on his birthday.

    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...265945981.html

    Why haven't protesters around the nation taken to the streets with their signs "shake hands not shoot" and demanded the heads of those responsible. Why isn't the public crying foul and conspiracy theory if those involved get anything less than the death penalty? Why aren't Facebook pages being created and tweets being shared #stopshootingcops. Why isn't there a thread on retriever.net talking about how sad this is and everyone wished the public would stop shooting cops with guns? Why aren't people saying "if your going to hurt a cop please use something less than lethal. Throw a donut at them from your pocket or something, use a stick, but please avoid using a gun and shooting right away". Aren't cops part of families just like dogs? Do we need to have a cellphone video posted online by the family to get the public as fired up about this as the Utah dog shooting? Why aren't u crying out that the officers constitutional rights have been violated? He has a right to live doesn't he?

    I got involved in this thread because the Utah cop was being cut down, judged, and crucified without all the facts being known and a jury trial was taking place on this forum without all the evidence presented before the court. Why arent you all doing the same with the Gary, Indiana incident? Maybe because the investigation hasn't been finished and you don't know all the facts? Or maybe you haven't even heard about this incident. You had to have. I can't imagine a dog getting shot by a cop in Utah would get more news media, internet, and social media attention than a cop being killed on duty and found dead in his patrol car with shell casings scattered around. Ok ill concede to the fact that the Utah incident took place several days ago and the Gary incident happened this weekend. So we should see a change in focus once more people hear about the Gary incident right? Certainly the public will consider the Utah incident second rate to Gary right?

    If the investigation finds the Utah cop was wrong then he was wrong and he will have to face the music. I've said that all along. But really....we have bigger problems to deal with people. And there are certainly other issues that are more deserving of the attention and our time.

    Ok! Back to enforcing and honoring the consttution. Some low life thug that takes a criminlaly takes the life of another human being, needs to be QUICLY prosecuted, because he deprived that innocent person, their right to LIFE , liberty and the pusuit of happiness.

    Thte problem many times, are the folks that want to get in the way of that constitution.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #157
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Wow, this thread has really spun off in a direction I didn't anticipate. Personally I have never had a bad experience with any LEO, I have a few friends that were or are cops, Highway Patrol even a training buddy who is a retired police chief, so I don't tend to jump on and believe every perceived police brutality story I read. That said, just like any profession, I'm sure there are bad apple police that get more attention than they deserve. I also understand a cops need to instantly react when their life is threatened. My wife and I took a concealed carry handgun course a few years ago. I remember it being drummed into us that when you make that fateful decision to use lethal force to protect yourself you can't go halfway. We were taught that if we were going to shoot, we should shoot to kill and empty our gun, no trying to shoot the gun out of the hand like Roy Rodgers and Hopalong Cassidy did.

    Now as much as I tend to stick up for law enforcement, I have to say that my perception is many of them seem rather tone deaf on how people feel about their dogs. I also think that they seem to feel rather beleaguered by the uproar and fall back on an "us against them" back to the wall blind support of brethren. As to my tone deaf comment, I know in general dealings with people at large, people possess varying degrees of dog sense. Many people can't read dogs, some see any dog as a very frightening animal, some see a barking dog with a wagging tail and are unsure what it means, maybe a big (100 pound) Weim looked like a Doberman to this guy. Most people on RTF understand dogs way better than the average person and would be fairly comfortable with a big Weim running toward us. Also non-dog people don't understand how people feel about their pets. I shouldn't put this in print but if anybody shot my dog in front of me on my own property I would probably be up on murder charges because I don't know if I could control myself.

    I know I wasn't there, but it just seems very-very wrong for someone to enter a private yard and in the course of events kill the family pet. I'm not going to get into the legality of entering the property, I'll accept the fact that the cop was trying to do the right thing, he didn't know the child had been found, but I can't forgive him for shooting that dog. Did he fear for his life or a dog bite? I really think police departments around the country need to educate their personnel on dogs, that Heeler story is even more tragic with the owner bawling his eyes out begging the officer to finish the job.

  8. #158
    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,857

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlabs View Post
    This s the same thing we face while deployed except a lot bigger if a price it's a humans life until you are out in the situation where you feel threatened and have 1.5 sec to make a call you will never understand what goes on through someone's head at that time. I personally think the officer was in the right u feel threatened you have a split second to protect yourself. Kill the dog or possibly be killed by it what would you do??
    Quote Originally Posted by 480/277 View Post
    so how many USPS, UPs , FedEx, plumbers, electricians, etc are killed by dogs every year?
    And how many are killed by Silver Labs...er, I mean Weims? Seriously, in fear for you life from a damn Weimaraner? Not enough cajones to be a police officer if you are in fear for your life from a Weimaraner.
    ---------------------------------------------
    HRCH "Boomer" MH
    UH HR "Hunter" SH (RIP)

    "When you go to a test or a trial, your dog should be underwhelmed." ~ Evan Graham

    "It is unreasonable to expect a dog to be more precise than you are." ~ Rex Carr

    "You own what you condone." ~ Mike Lardy

  9. #159
    Senior Member Migillicutty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Aubrey, Tx
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HuntinDawg View Post
    And how many are killed by Silver Labs...er, I mean Weims? Seriously, in fear for you life from a damn Weimaraner? Not enough cajones to be a police officer if you are in fear for your life from a Weimaraner.

    Now now, we don't know all the facts. That Weimaraner could have been wearing a suicide vest with his paw on the detonator.

  10. #160
    Senior Member jrrichar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Southern CA
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Migillicutty View Post
    Now now, we don't know all the facts. That Weimaraner could have been wearing a suicide vest with his paw on the detonator.
    Or brandishing a baton, which is apparently just as lethal as a gun! How dare we come to the conclusion that the officer was an idiot based on the facts of a fenced yard, closed gate, officer who entered said gate and upon seeing the dog shot it instead of closing the gate. We must protect all officers from using their brains and in the face of a dangerous Weim. fire our service gun.
    Janell Richardson

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •