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Thread: No need to speak English

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default No need to speak English

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbar...ation-n1858411

    Via CNS News (emphasis mine):


    The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), a federal agency tasked with enforcing workplace discrimination laws, is suing a private American business for firing a group of Hispanic and Asian employees over their inability to speak English at work, claiming that the English-language requirement in a U.S. business constitutes “discrimination.”
    Judicial Watchreported Tuesdaythat the government is accusing Wisconsin Plastics, Inc. of violatingTitle VIIof the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination based on “national origin.” The government argues this includes the “linguistic characteristics of a national origin group.”


    Just think ... if a worker doesn't have to speak English, how can they be trained to do their job? Must the employer hire a translator to accommodate the non-English-speaking worker? Can the employer make it a requirement that the translator speak English? Or should all employers be required by govt to learn to speak every language of every immigrant group in the US?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbar...ation-n1858411



    Just think ... if a worker doesn't have to speak English, how can they be trained to do their job? Must the employer hire a translator to accommodate the non-English-speaking worker? Can the employer make it a requirement that the translator speak English? Or should all employers be required by govt to learn to speak every language of every immigrant group in the US?
    [/INDENT]
    YES and NO. What happened to common sense? Did the company in question hire workers because they would accept a low wage? Was there an english language requirement at hiring? If there was not, did the company in question set a deadline to learn english? There are more questions than answers in your link, and your post.
    FYI A friend recently set up an office cleaning business. The workers are not required to speak english. All lead people and managers ARE required to be bi-lingual. Just common sense I guess. BTW the business is succesful and growing. No problem hiring legal immigrants with greencards or work visas. Also the increase in pay to become a bi-lingual lead person has within the last year encouraged several to apply for and achieve citizenship.
    Last edited by JDogger; 07-02-2014 at 08:40 PM.
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    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    At one time I rented a house to some Professors from India. We had discussions on various topics, one of which was what the effect of Brit colonization had been. These guys were teaching in the engineering dept as I recall, so well educated and smart. One of the positive things they had to say was that the Brits had made English the official language in India. Seems that there are something like 250 regional dialects on the Indian continent and standardizing the language allowed for a more united country that can do business and so on much more efficiently. Too bad that in the name of "equality" we are making it MORE difficult to communicate here. When I was in school in the 60's and 70's it was against the rules to speak anything but English at school. A very good policy in my opinion.
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    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Navajo code talkers ring a bell homeboy?
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Navajo code talkers ring a bell homeboy?
    They still spoke and wrote english

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Navajo code talkers ring a bell homeboy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Down East Labs 217 View Post
    They still spoke and wrote english
    My niece Candace is a full blooded Navajo and as a child she used to talk in code,of course it could have been that she was swearing at my brother for being so strict, or maybe she was swearing at her older brothers and vowing to even the score for tormenting her...to this day she wont fess up and said it was childish jibberish
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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Navajo code talkers ring a bell homeboy?
    I remember that story, didn't they speak in their native tongue vs english so NOONE would understand them????

    DELIBERATELY????
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    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    If the BIA and the Indian Schools had been sucessful none of the codetalkers would have retained their native language. While many of the Navajo at boarding school learned to speak english, few were taught to write it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker




    Philip Johnston, a civil engineer for the city of Los Angeles,[12] proposed the use of Navajo to the United States Marine Corps at the beginning of World War II. Johnston, a World War I veteran, was raised on the Navajo reservation as the son of a missionary to the Navajos, and was one of the few non-Navajos who spoke their language fluently. Because Navajo has a complex grammar, it is not nearly mutually intelligible enough with even its closest relatives within the Na-Dene family to provide meaningful information, and was at this time an unwritten language, Johnston saw Navajo as answering the military requirement for an undecipherable code. Navajo was spoken only on the Navajo lands of the American Southwest, and its syntax and tonal qualities, not to mention dialects, made it unintelligible to anyone without extensive exposure and training. One estimate indicates that at the outbreak of World War II fewer than 30 non-Navajos could understand the language.[13]
    Early in 1942, Johnston met with Major General Clayton B. Vogel, the commanding general of Amphibious Corps, Pacific Fleet, and his staff. Johnston staged tests under simulated combat conditions which demonstrated that Navajos could encode, transmit, and decode a three-line English message in 20 seconds, versus the 30 minutes required by machines at that time. The idea was accepted, with Vogel recommending that the Marines recruit 200 Navajos. The first 29 Navajo recruits attended boot camp in May 1942. This first group then created the Navajo code at Camp Pendleton, Oceanside, California.[14] The Navajo code was formally developed and modeled on the Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet that uses agreed-upon English words to represent letters. As it was determined that phonetically spelling out all military terms letter by letter into words—while in combat—would be too time-consuming, some terms, concepts, tactics and instruments of modern warfare were given uniquely formal descriptive nomenclatures in Navajo (the word for "potato" being used to refer to a hand grenade, or "turtle" to a tank, for example). Several of these portmanteaus (such as gofasters referring to running shoes, ink sticks for pens) entered Marine Corps vocabulary and are commonly used today to refer to the appropriate objects.[citation needed]
    A codebook was developed to teach the many relevant words and concepts to new initiates. The text was for classroom purposes only, and was never to be taken into the field. The code talkers memorized all these variations and practiced their rapid use under stressful conditions during training. Uninitiated Navajo speakers would have no idea what the code talkers' messages meant; they would hear only truncated and disjointed strings of individual, unrelated nouns and verbs.

    Code Talkers Monument Ocala, Florida Memorial Park


    The Navajo code talkers were commended for their skill, speed, and accuracy accrued throughout the war. At the Battle of Iwo Jima, Major Howard Connor, 5th Marine Division signal officer, had six Navajo code talkers working around the clock during the first two days of the battle. These six sent and received over 800 messages, all without error. Connor later stated, "Were it not for the Navajos, the Marines would never have taken Iwo Jima."[14]
    As the war progressed, additional code words were added on and incorporated program-wide. In other instances, informal short-cut code words were devised for a particular campaign and not disseminated beyond the area of operation. To ensure a consistent use of code terminologies throughout the Pacific Theater, representative code talkers of each of the U.S. Marine divisions met in Hawaii to discuss shortcomings in the code, incorporate new terms into the system, and update their codebooks. These representatives in turn trained other code talkers who could not attend the meeting. For example, the Navajo word for buzzard, jeeshóóʼ, was used for bomber, while the code word used for submarine, béésh łóóʼ, meant iron fish in Navajo.[15] The last of the original 29 Navajo code talkers who developed the code, Chester Nez, died on June 4, 2014.[16]
    The deployment of the Navajo code talkers continued through the Korean War and after, until it was ended early in the Vietnam War.

    Maybe english only is not always the best idea...

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I remember that story, didn't they speak in their native tongue vs english so NOONE would understand them????

    DELIBERATELY????
    I believe that the Japanese military couldn't break their code.

    As far as the original topic. We have lost control of this country's borders and sovereignty. Anyone want to lay odds that the likes of ISIS or Al Qaeda has crossed our borders with the rest of the cockroaches.

    When we are attacked on our homeland again, which will be in the not to distant future, I hope history lay's the fault squarely where it belongs. On Obama's head.
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    Road Kill #7 - You are correct but it went further. These young Navaho men spoke in Navaho slang plus deliberately enhanced it so that even unaware indigenous Navaho speakers could not understand what they were saying.

    Further as a native born American who speaks six languages other than English I totally agree all immigrants should be required to speak and read basic English for safety , advancement and social integration. Go back to the 1920s-30s where "legal" immigrants had to pass English comprehension classes w/grades in order to obtain US citizenship. Now we have some who want to give illegals driver's licenses w/o any requirements but a warm body?

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