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Thread: New vocabulary word...

  1. #11
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    I did say left angle back in my post. If a left back is literal and left over is survival (based on teds description bird is relatively straight back on left side of dog) a left angle back would be momentum in that it would take the angle into the water deep enough so you could see him and not give the opportunity to beach early and drifting with the wind towards the shore on the right it would put you where you hoped a left back would of?

    Or if he takes the angle too deep and gets out of the blind window stop him and at least he's in the water and out of the opportunity to beach and you could then give a right back or right angle back (depending on dogs relation to the blind at this point)

    Or is survival and momentum the same in this instance?
    You will start to figure it out better when you run enough of them... No matter how much someone explains it... You won't really get it till you have your hat in your hand and are walking through the gallery on your way back to the truck a few times.
    Bill Davis

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    You will start to figure it out better when you run enough of them... No matter how much someone explains it... You won't really get it till you have your hat in your hand and are walking through the gallery on your way back to the truck a few times.
    Gee, thanks! (Seriously though... have been practicing saying "Thank you, Judges" with just the correct vocal timbre and the right amount of sincerity to seem authentic.)

  3. #13
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    this is what i meant. where pink is the actual line to the blind (orange), the black circle on the T is the dog, the red is the failed left back cast leading to dog beaching, the green is the "safe" over (presumably followed by a right back or right angle back), and the teal is the momentum cast left angle back where dog would drift with wind or if he did not drift you would follow with a right back. zoom is in bottom right hand corner of the picture

    http://s299.photobucket.com/user/bla...tml?sort=3&o=1

    i've included the original in case anyone want to try their hand at demonstrating something if i'm wrong

    http://s299.photobucket.com/user/blake_mhoona/media/literal2_zps71f060e8.png.html?sort=3&o=0

    and bill in case you haven't noticed the started classifieds page it may be 3-4 years before i'm at this level as this one isn't going to cut AA
    Last edited by blake_mhoona; 07-03-2014 at 11:02 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Easy there, Mayhem��... You will get there... All I'm saying is, it's not all that complicated... Ed told you everything you needed to hear, as did Ted.

    You want to take the most direct path in training. The dog is going to be high at a trial... The trial is not the time to insist on training standards unless you are willing to go home early. On that point, better to give the "over" and keep playing. (At least early in your Q and AA career... Till you know or think your dog will take the literal cast in that situation). Momentum will usually make the dog less likely to take the cast you need and more likely to take the cast he wants...
    Bill Davis

  5. #15
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Easy there, Mayhem��... You will get there... All I'm saying is, it's not all that complicated... Ed told you everything you needed to hear, as did Ted.

    You want to take the most direct path in training. The dog is going to be high at a trial... The trial is not the time to insist on training standards unless you are willing to go home early. On that point, better to give the "over" and keep playing. (At least early in your Q and AA career... Till you know or think your dog will take the literal cast in that situation). Momentum will usually make the dog less likely to take the cast you need and more likely to take the cast he wants...
    So at a trial you give an exaggerated cast ? If you need an angle back , you give an over , or add a left step before the cast ? But come Monday you still train on the angle back in training ?
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  6. #16
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawninthesticks View Post
    So at a trial you give an exaggerated cast ? If you need an angle back , you give an over , or add a left step before the cast ? But come Monday you still train on the angle back in training ?
    Depends on the test... On the example Ted gave, my answer is yes, give an over or something close to it... And stay in the trial. One extra cast and/or whistle isn't going to kill you... But one too few will.
    Bill Davis

  7. #17
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    well let me ask you this...is my description of momentum casting correct? giving the left angle back (whether its right or wrong for your/my dog) expecting him to fade with the wind towards the blind.

    i just want to know whether or not i have my concepts correct. literal if taken will put right at the bird. momentum is taking into account factors/your dog and giving cast.

  8. #18
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...-momentum-cast


    Pretty good diagram and explanation from Kwik
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  9. #19
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    Based upon the responses, I think I understand literal, momentum and survival (good description) casts. But let me tell you the context in which the word came up and confused me. Retrievers Online 2012 issue 3, "10 Best Stand Alones to Improve Marking, Focus, Skills and Experiences" So it's about introducing some complexities like cover strips, angling ditches and roads, hay bales and stuff.

    You can do a little handling as the dog is coming at the mark, not by stopping and casting but by simply giving literal casting

    Here the handler is not on the line managing the dog. It sounds to me that Voigt is basically saying the handler (who doubles as the "gunner" in Stand Alones) can pretty much point to the fall (you know what I mean... not point really but stick out your arms appropriately) if the dog needs a hint as he emerges from the ditch or cover or whatever.

    Based on your replies, that's how I'm interpreting this statement. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

  10. #20
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    BTW: Retrievers Online is golden. It's just sometimes a little over my head.

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