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Thread: Dedicated casting

  1. #11
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    I've used it with my SH male, if I understand the original OP. My hand signal is either arm down or down on angle and double whistle. I don't make my dog sit on a return. I find it especially useful on marks or blinds tight to the shoreline

  2. #12
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishin444 View Post
    I've used it with my SH male, if I understand the original OP. My hand signal is either arm down or down on angle and double whistle. I don't make my dog sit on a return. I find it especially useful on marks or blinds tight to the shoreline
    Would you mind posting a little video of you doing that. I'm having trouble visualizing it in practice.

    Evan
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  3. #13
    Senior Member mostlygold's Avatar
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    Same as disciplined casting. Casting the dog with the bumper in its mouth. I have never done this before with my dogs but was told it would help with swim by. By the responses here most don't feel it is necessary. I have not had a problem with that aspect of swim by with my other dogs. Certainly enough other things we need to do.

    Another question. How many of you feel that dogs should be taught channel concept before doing swim by?

    Dawn
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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlygold View Post
    .....Another question. How many of you feel that dogs should be taught channel concept before doing swim by?...
    I do.

    A puppy can "see" the picture of a channel, and be taught to center it on the send and return. Long before it is ready for the pressure of swim by.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlygold View Post
    Same as disciplined casting. Casting the dog with the bumper in its mouth. I have never done this before with my dogs but was told it would help with swim by. By the responses here most don't feel it is necessary. I have not had a problem with that aspect of swim by with my other dogs. Certainly enough other things we need to do.

    Another question. How many of you feel that dogs should be taught channel concept before doing swim by?

    Dawn
    I have trained many dogs to do a swim-by during T work . I have even done swim -by before I did double T . The reason for doing so is to beat the cold weather and cold water. I do not go south for the winter. I feel it better to do swim-by before pattern blinds. But yet I have done swim-by after doing pattern blinds the following spring when the water was warm again.And I can not say rather it was for the worse or better.

    If you want to see dogs start to hate swim-by or resist going in, try it when the water temp is below 60 or 50 degrees. This is the very reason I want to do this drill before it gets cold .

    I still prefer to do basics in a systematic order of sorts.

    Why do I do Land -by or as Evan calls them "run -by" ? The reason I spend few days or week on lessons on land-by is for a smoother transition to Swim-by.

    Do I see a benefit from doing this you might ask ? I have Done it both ways , I sure still get the dog to do a swim-by , but some of these less talented dogs I work sure seem to go through swim by and get it faster than those I did not do land -by with.

    So - I will CONTINUE to do land by , not for any long lasting benefits but for a smoother transition to doing swim-by

    ( INCH BY INCH IS A SYNCH YARD BY YARD IS VERY HARD )

    Dogs that do Swim -by that then do channel blinds or marks in my view are more HONEST in the channel . But I use channels for de cheating and there for they MUST handle. I have 4 channels down to 8 yards wide with entries up to over 150 yards.

    So I do Swim-by first before I do channels .

    Some one came here to train last week with a young dog and tried to do a channel mark in a 40 yard long by 20 yard wide channel before it has done swim-by and it was nothing but a battle with the dog not to run around. I think the dog won in the end . I had to leave , but I am 100% sure that my dogs that have gone through swim -by never have a problem as this dog was giving the owner. ( just a thought )
    Last edited by James Seibel; 07-05-2014 at 08:22 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    I think many trainers regard handling on return (with bumper in mouth) as swim-by. To each his/her own. I do not regard them as the same, especially in effectiveness.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I think many trainers regard handling on return (with bumper in mouth) as swim-by. To each his/her own. I do not regard them as the same, especially in effectiveness.

    Evan
    I no longer handle dogs on return - I go over and place a dog in the center of t field . I cast to a pile over at left. I then say over and cast dog over to the right T . I expect the dog to cast to the right and visa verse. ( run by )

    I have even had the dog go back and forth. I stand close at first then move back as far as 20 or 30 yards. Nothing more nothing less than a swim by first on land.

    inch by inch is a synch yard by yard is very hard. To remove this step can add days to a swim by which I can not afford especially when cold weather is on its way .

    as you say to each his/her own

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Seibel View Post
    I no longer handle dogs on return - I go over and place a dog in the center of t field . I cast to a pile over at left. I then say over and cast dog over to the right T . I expect the dog to cast to the right and visa verse. ( run by )

    I have even had the dog go back and forth. I stand close at first then move back as far as 20 or 30 yards. Nothing more nothing less than a swim by first on land.

    inch by inch is a synch yard by yard is very hard. To remove this step can add days to a swim by which I can not afford especially when cold weather is on its way .

    as you say to each his/her own
    This logic misses the whole point of swim by. Swim by is not jut taking an over cast in water. When done properly you will have installed a method of correction that will be used for more advanced work over the lifetime of the dog. It is also to teach the dog their water manners, instill comfort with that element in the dog, and can communicate "more water" to the dog, all of which are accomplished by spending more time in the water, not less. By brushing over the skill just to get through it you and the dog are missing the whole point.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    This logic misses the whole point of swim by. Swim by is not jut taking an over cast in water. When done properly you will have installed a method of correction that will be used for more advanced work over the lifetime of the dog. It is also to teach the dog their water manners, instill comfort with that element in the dog, and can communicate "more water" to the dog, all of which are accomplished by spending more time in the water, not less. By brushing over the skill just to get through it you and the dog are missing the whole point.
    I agree with you : I think your missing my point. The point I was trying to make is I still use "run by "drill on land and find it to be a good step to do before swim-by.

    I believe the majority of dogs I run on "run by " land drill have dogs transition into doing a swim-by more easier and faster. Many of the dogs I work grasp what I am trying to get across to them to do swim-by with less effort.

    Think about what I am saying (not that it is right ) but that WATER is a harder element than land to teach a concept. Then it follows that if you teach T on land first is easier to teach T on water . It follows then if you cast a dog with a bumper in their mouth pass you to a exit spots in T work , so to speak then when a dog is doing this 100% it should follow they will understand faster how to swim by you water.

    I believe a land by or Run by is a good step to do in T work and should not be by passed as some believe .

    Just my thinking. I never said I short cut swim by short. Did you ever have 8 month old pups through double T and Swim -by ?

    Jim
    Last edited by James Seibel; 07-06-2014 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishin444 View Post
    I've used it with my SH male, if I understand the original OP. My hand signal is either arm down or down on angle and double whistle.........
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Would you mind posting a little video of you doing that. I'm having trouble visualizing it in practice.

    Evan
    Evan,
    Just watch the Lardy Tapes

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