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Thread: Another MH test rule clarification question

  1. #1
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    Default Another MH test rule clarification question

    Master series where the dog is required to run a double blind before the marks.
    Dog to the line, does a credible job on the blinds, gets invited to the marks.
    First bird thrown is a no bird. Handler says, “I’ll go back 3 then run the marks”
    Judge says, “If you go back 3, then you have to run the blinds again before the marks”
    Handler “My dog won’t go back to those blinds since he has already been there. He knows not to go back to an old fall”
    Judge “Well you can stay right there and run the marks now”
    Handler “I have just told him no bird on that mark that was misthrown. If I run now, he will think he is being set up for a correction. He won’t go there unless we go back 3. I have already run the blinds, why do I have to again?
    Judge “That is how we are going to do it. You choose”
    Handler had to choose his poison. He chose to stay at the line and run the marks and the dog did not want to go to where he had the no bird. As we watched, the dog was buggy at the line when lined for it, and eventually had to be handled to that mark.

    Question: Once an element of the series is complete and the element is scored independent of the other elements of the test, does it need to be completed again? It would seem to me that since there was a mechanical error in the test, the handler should get the option.

    MP
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  2. #2
    Senior Member i_willie12's Avatar
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    In HRC once you have completed that portion of the test you are good till there.... Say you come to the line off lead and get a no bird You go back 3 dogs then come up to the line on lead to the bucket cause "your good to the bucket" you have completed that portion of the test

    I would have been calling for a field rep or hunt committee if they told me if i go back i have to re-run the blinds!
    "Some people pride themselves on how far they can shoot ducks, others pride themselves on how close they can get them. I'm an other!!! "
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    Senior Member Swampcollie's Avatar
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    I believe there should be no option. You go back three dogs and re-run this series entire test, including the blinds.

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    Senior Member djansma's Avatar
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    You have to re run the whole series and have attempt to pick up the birds
    in the same order but you are only scored on the birds you
    did not complete but you can be dropped for refusals when
    trying to complete the elements you had already done
    The time you spend on earth with your dog is precious; enjoy it to your fullest

  5. #5
    Senior Member Twin Willows Labs's Avatar
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    Aren't the blinds technically considered their own series?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
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    Which set of blinds do you judge?

    Situation 1. Dog does well on blinds, gets no-bird on marks, then does poorly on blinds in second run because of training not to return to old fall.

    Situation 2. Dog does so-so on blinds, gets no-bird on marks, then lines the blinds on second run because he's been there, done that.

    I suggest you have to judge the blinds the first time they are run. Then judge the marks on the re-run.
    Mike Tome
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    Senior Member Jeannie Greenlee's Avatar
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    Talking

    I understand the reasoning behind running the marks immediately after the blinds but wouldn't the first time the blinds were run be scored as the blind score and the second time the blinds would not be scored but be run because they were an element of the marks? So the second run would be run the blinds (no score) then run the marks to be scored? That's how I see it anyway.

    Looks like 3 of us were posting the same answer at the same time.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Jim Danis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djansma View Post
    You have to re run the whole series and have attempt to pick up the birds
    in the same order but you are only scored on the birds you
    did not complete but you can be dropped for refusals when
    trying to complete the elements you had already done
    This is what has always happened to me. Every time I have been in the above situation I have always had to run the whole series but was only scored on the ones I did not complete from earlier.
    Last edited by Jim Danis; 07-09-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Mike, how are you getting into all these Master tests?
    Mark Land

  10. #10
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Danis View Post
    This is what has always happened to me. Every time i have been in the above situation I have always had to run the whole series but was only scored on the I did not complete from earlier.

    This. You have to rerun the blinds, but should only be judged on the marks with you score from the blinds standing from the first run. You can neither fail nor improve your blind score the second time around, but the blinds are part of the series and may be an important element in setting up the marks. It would be no different than if you had a delayed triple or diversion bird and picked up one or two birds and then had a no bird on the last mark. You would still have to run the entire triple again, but you would not be judged on the marks you had already run.
    If your dog will not return to a blind it has run once when you command it to do so, I would suggest you have not done yourself any favors with the collar. One thing to teach a dog to avoid old falls, but to have one that will not go as sent is another.
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