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Thread: Drive or Desire...one and the same?

  1. #11
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Remember!
    the OP was about an 8 month old puppy!
    Again! What role does developing confidence play?

    gooser
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Kirk Keene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    I would want to know why you say that about your dog. Are you using pressure or is she just giving you lack of effort?? Curious! Too much pressure incorrectly applied can change a dog's attitude. JMO
    Mary Lynn...it's just her general demeanor, and I think that's just "who she is". Not a product of pressure, as I've handled her with kid gloves from the start due to her attitude. If she were a client dog, I'd have already made the dreaded phone call.

    I've seen my share of dogs like this in the past, but have never really thought about the separation of DRIVE and DESIRE. Dealing with this little girl just got the wheels turning during the morning session.

    Although not related to the topic, I have a littermate in training that belongs to a client and frequently train with another littermate (both females as well). Both of the littermates have a marked desire to work, and have outstanding potential as hunting/hunt test dogs.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Does she have a lot of quit in her? Or is she simply bored and choosing not to continue? or is she not being challenge enough? Young dog as with kids, work ethic sometimes needs to be built, particularly with smart girls who get bored with repetitive tasts. I don't know that this has to do with drive or desire, just that she has the desire and drive to do things the way and when she wants to. Typical Female. Still It's all a balance with puppies, keeping things fun, and giving them a bit of tough love when they know it but just aren't into it any more. Now 8 mt attention span isn't all there so it's probably more about fun and you'd do better to shut off before she get bored. When she gets a little older or you start Forcing she'll need to learn that she has a responsibility to do her job, she'll fight you for awhile on that. But eventually she'll learn hey doing my job can be fun, let's go to work; then the drive and desire will be focused the correct way. This is still a work in progress with my team, who choose to believe training aspects are dumb, but like to play the game. D*&^ Females!!!
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-10-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Is it possible her true desire and drive is yet to cone out being so young
    Stilll

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keene View Post
    Mary Lynn...it's just her general demeanor, and I think that's just "who she is". Not a product of pressure, as I've handled her with kid gloves from the start due to her attitude. If she were a client dog, I'd have already made the dreaded phone call.

    I've seen my share of dogs like this in the past, but have never really thought about the separation of DRIVE and DESIRE. Dealing with this little girl just got the wheels turning during the morning session.

    Although not related to the topic, I have a littermate in training that belongs to a client and frequently train with another littermate (both females as well). Both of the littermates have a marked desire to work, and have outstanding potential as hunting/hunt test dogs.
    I will guess then you will have to draw the line somewhere as to how much time you put into her and is she going to change. Maybe waiting until she is older since she is yours might make a difference. So hard to tell. IMO Good luck.
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  6. #16
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    It sounds just like my dog 6 years ago. She loved to retrieve from the get-go, very hyperkinetic as a pup and through Ob. But would fold like a taco and become pitiful if she didn't really want to play anymore. The pro took over and she learned some discipline and a rock solid foundation. At this point, she is very smart dog with very good basics and a lot of advanced skills. But still... when she's hot, she's hot. When she's not, she gets confused looking for her food dish. But... it passes. Then she's back to business. So, she's worth it and she keeps it all very interesting.

  7. #17
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Remember!
    the OP was about an 8 month old puppy!
    Again! What role does developing confidence play?

    gooser
    Confidence is very important and can help build on desire in a dog with desire. I do not believe that confidence can build desire in a dog that does not have it to begin with. If you HAVE to build confidence in a dog you are not building desire, you are just trying to coax your dog to do something he has no desire to do.
    I see this all the time, fluffy lazily walks to pick up the bird and really doesn't want to put the dead bird in its mouth. You can build confidence in this dog by throwing easy marks and praising the crap out of it. The dog will still have no desire to do it other than to receive your praise. This is not desire. A dog with desire seldom needs confidence builders because they desire to do what they do so much that confidence doesn't come into play. They don't think about it they just do it.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    BTW - in my book desire is a HUGE part of style. A dog with no desire will never carry a passing score from me in style.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keene View Post
    I currently have a 8 month-old BLF in training that's giving me mixed signals. While she's shown good prey (and retrieving) DRIVE up to this point, she's also shown me (to quote Ron White) that "she's got a lot of quit in her."

    In the past, I've always associated DRIVE and DESIRE as the same animal...yet this pup is causing me to re-think my definitions of each. Personally, I'm beginning to see DRIVE simply as the chase-mechanism that most of our dogs posses, but in varying degrees. My definition of DESIRE would be a combination of qualities (specifically tenacity and perseverance). I believe DRIVE can be present without DESIRE, but DESIRE cannot be present without DRIVE.

    While this may simply be a lesson in semantics, I still think it's a topic for good discussion. What say you?
    if you goggle what does desire mean , you will see that it means to want something .

    perseverance means per·se·ver·ance
    ˌpərsəˈvi(ə)rəns/
    noun
    noun: perseverance

    steadfastness in doing something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success.
    "his perseverance with the technique illustrates his single-mindedness"
    synonyms: persistence, tenacity, determination, staying power, indefatigability, steadfastness, purposefulness; More
    patience, endurance, application, diligence, dedication, commitment, doggedness, assiduity, tirelessness, stamina;
    intransigence, obstinacy;
    informalstick-to-it-iveness;
    formalpertinacity
    "in a competitive environment, perseverance is an invaluable asset"

    Drive then is What gets you there for your desire .

    I desire that duck laying shot on the water. I need drive in order to get that duck . Perseverance is needed due to the river is swift and the water is cold with ice flows on it and the duck is way out there due to my boss is a lousy shot . ect ect..


    My one dog had good drive and showed that fact , if it was for a duck But no or next to zero desire to own that plastic dummy, so would prefer not to go for it even though the dog had drive .

    My other dog had lots of drive and as much desire to own a plastic dummy as a duck.

    My buddy's dog would sit in the boat - It had desire for the duck but would rather let my dog fetch it. Then make a big deal over the duck when it was in the boat. Kinda like a dog waiting for a free lunch.

    well this is how I view it . And bottom ? It is a dog that never stops working , go all day 7 days a week, year in year out.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Tyler Pugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A team View Post
    I break down to prey drive and work ethic.

    My Sable dog had great prey drive and was an incredible hunter but had terrible work ethic. She hated drills and it took a lot of training and a lot of thought on my part to get her to the level she was at.

    My Delilah pup has got great prey drive and a wonderful work ethic, she's simply up to whatever task is on the menu for the day.

    In my opinion a dog that does not have work ethic drives when they want to drive. And quitting is directly tied to perseverance, and this will show up any time the dog is challenged, whether it's on a blind or a challenging mark or any of the necessary drills we must perform.

    Good luck with your pup.
    Your Sable pup is exactly my situation. She runs and works hard when we are running marks (especially with birds) but when it comes to drills, she acts like its the worst thing in the world. But we're fighting through it.
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