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Thread: When/how do you know when you have a superstar on your hands?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    You are of course right. On the other hand, this sight represents an immense "institutional memory"... plus everyone has an opinion.

    Define Superstar: Well, I think I should have said "prodigy" rather than Super Star. I was trying to see if there is any consensus on what a destined-for-greatness dog would look like at 6 months, a year, and so on. And I think there must be some hints because the in-demand pros are quite selective in which dogs they spend time on. And... obviously, I have a young dog and am hoping someone will chime in and describe her to the T. So that's why I brought it up.
    Even dogs that have become very nice AA, field champion dogs have greatly varied progressions to their success. I know some long time successful field trialers (with multiple nat'l champs) that will wash a promising young dog (at least to most of us) if it isn't winning in its 3rd year. In contrast, I have owned a dog that didn't get its first AA placement until age 4 but averaged 8-10 pts per year for several years thereafter & went 7 series in a nat'l. I never thought of him as a super-star & certainly not a prodigy but looking back I'd take 2-3 of him any day. In general, I'd say females show more promise early 18-30 mos but males come on strong from 30+ mos (but nothing happens "in general"). That was the case with my Stella & her litter. Pink, her sister, was the nat'l derby champ. Stella showed promise but I don't run many derbies (only 5-6 with Stella) but I knew she was good in her first derby, a JAM. Stella was the first to win an open in that litter, first to receive her FC & had the best early nat'l experience going 8 series as a 3 yr old & eventually a Nat'l Am finalist. But with maturity, Juice is now the most accomplished in that litter with Freeway close & Stella & Pink just behind. I still don't run Stella like the other littermates & she has probably not reached her potential due to my handling and fewer trials but she is the closest I have had to a very nice dog. Just to prove the opposite, I have had 3 very, very impressive young dogs that won derbies & Qs before age 2 & none of those dogs made competitive AA dogs. One is now a 3 time MN champ, another has 5 AA 2nds but is retired without a title & the other (the most talented as a derby age dog) is a hunting dog. I'd say just look at how they mark, how they work out finding birds when they are influenced by factors, how well they learn & retain training & see how they progress. But you never know how dogs are going to do until you start to win AA stakes with them. Easy to look back and say yep she was a good one but it is so difficult to win AA events you just never know.
    Last edited by Granddaddy; 07-14-2014 at 11:49 AM.
    David Didier, GA

  2. #42
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    David...well said....and By most peoples estimation Stella is a candidate for stardom

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    Senior Member stoney's Avatar
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    if u have a FC X FC breeding u are off to a great start u have a dog with both parents that are proven trial dogs
    it sounds to me like u havent been around the top dogs all that much and so u dont have a great basis of comparison but many people have taken their first dog all the way so it can be done
    when i started i was lucky enough to get to train with a 2 time national ch as time went by i was able to match my bitch up against the standard
    i think a lot of getting your dog up to superstar standard is understanding what is and what is not fair and reasonable hence u need to be around the top dogs regularly to build an appreciation
    good luck
    Last edited by stoney; 07-15-2014 at 05:21 AM. Reason: grammer

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    when someone offers you a bunch of money for your dog.....and you actually consider taking it
    Ha ha ... I guess I got one This is a running joke with my local training friends .... I get asked often how much to buy my girl.
    So her topper box reads:
    1381369_10201218284633368_1610262916_n.jpg
    Danielle R. Pellicci
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    SPICE, MH (11) CD RA NA (OA2) NAJ
    (FC AFC “Cori” X Malli QAA)
    FEATHER, MH QAA
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X “Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    PENNY, CD BN SH (RN2)
    (FC AFC CAFC “Copper” X “Faith” MH QAA)
    CAPPY
    (2XNAFC FC AFC “Ram” X “Cree”)
    HALO
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X“Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    TORCH
    (HRCH “Ticket” MH X“Penny” CD BN SH)
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    RIP: Rhumbline’s Guinness is Good, JH... Miss you every day "Big Man"

  5. #45
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    i think a lot of getting your dog up to superstar standard is understanding what is and what is not fair and reasonable hence u need to be around the top dogs regularly to build an appreciation
    good luck
    This has been an interesting thread to follow with lots of good input. Peter, can you elaborate on your statement above?

    Thanks!

    M
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  6. #46
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    hi miriam
    great to have u chime in
    i often think off u when i pass my 2007 Canadian open poster that i had framed and is on my wall i remember that your dog is on that poster
    my point was that when u compete against other great dogs on tests not off your choosing and are able to measure your own performance up against others u can often get a much more realistic assessment of how your dog stacks up
    u have to win in the judges estimation not your own and i think people who have not been exposed to top class competition can be seduced by youtube vids from third rate trainers putting up rehearsed blinds and parading them as the real deal etc this makes it very difficult to gain a real appreciation of what top class dogwork is all about
    almost without exception dogs win run better on training tests devised by their owners or trainers many people wonder why their dog doesn't perform to the same level in competition
    perceptive handlers will watch the great dogs and analyse the pluses and minus of each dog eventually they will realize that the greats are that way because of the sum total of what they do rather than because of any individually brilliant trait In other words there are many dogs out there who can run blinds in training like creek robber or mark like lean mac but the great dogs are a package and thru the elimination of weaknesses strengths will naturally occur
    great dogs need a great trainer and great trainers have an understanding of what is fair and reasonable an example would be decheating. Decheating can be overdone to the point where sagacity is knocked out of the dog The great dog and handler teams will understand that sometimes 8 out of 10 is the optimum score and will intrinsically understand that perfection is the enemy of very good U can only do this by measuring your standards against the best in competition conditions. I evaluate my dogs performance against the field on ever run.Most dogs will run 30% better or more in training than in competition the superstars will deteriorate far less maybe only 10% that is why they win. many new and ambitious handler trainers seek perfection and fail to realize that it is often the quality of the bottom 30% of a great dogs performance that dictates the outcome of the trial not the quality of the top end
    disaster proofing is critical to success and is an integral part of the superstar package great dogs are very consistent and do fewer poor runs and make less mistakes that is why they win Mistake minimization is paramount to success
    if u are not around the cream of the crop u have no basis of comparison u simply cannot evaluate what is fair and reasonable . Or if u get to train with one high end dog all u end up with is your own experiences and your training partners he may have succeeded for the right reasons or he may have succeeded despite what he did either way the pool is to small to draw any lasting conclusions
    personally my dog bossco is a good example he leads the nation this year in AA wins yet he is far from my best marker and i have owned better line runners and more athletic dogs which train to a higher standard yet bossco is a genuine Australian superstar and a very very dominate champion the sum total of what he does is a highly impressive package.
    Knowing what is fair and reasonable means calmly calculating risk minimization tactics on blinds and being prepared to blow whistles on marks if necessary getting to watch some of the worlds best dogs attempt the same tests i attempt helps to give a perspective that would otherwise not be possible
    i would encourage any ambitious up and coming trainer to spend time watching open AA competition and in particular the marquee dogs and build an appreciation for what can and cannot be done

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Define superstar? Wouldn't you have had to have a superstar to know what a superstar is? How many people who visit this site would know?
    Lots of speculation not many in the arena! Running against or judging....The few are quiet.
    Earl Dillow

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    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Lots of speculation not many in the arena! Running against or judging....The few are quiet.
    And why do you think that is, Earl?
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    And why do you think that is, Earl?
    Hmm Ted, Forgive them Father? or what is greatness? or it is the journey with the meal and the end is the desert, some want the desert before the meal. I don't drink, so maybe like Copterdoc, who knows. Think I am going to sign-off ,got to get up early to train our superstars in the morning, 7ish, suppose to be cool on the Ill/Wisc. border.
    Earl Dillow

  10. #50
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    Well, that makes mine a superstar. Couldn't be prouder!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    I had to look when I got home, and the dog jammed a derby at 6 months, I think this was it's 3rd or 4th. when it ran under me, bottom line the dog hasn't had a whole lot of training by 8 months, and most good derby dogs don't run until there 18+ monthes old, so this tells me this dog has very "naturally" talented and honest in and around the water and runs/swims straight.

    Everyone has there own idea of a superstar, there are great meatdogs that would make most NFC's look foolish in the marsh and those same meatdogs may not be able get through the first series of a easy Q , as lond as YOUR dog puts a smile on YOUR face in training/trialing/HTing and hunting thats all that matters..

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