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Thread: Two sires for one litter.......

  1. #1
    Senior Member limiman12's Avatar
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    Default Two sires for one litter.......

    Don't flame me for asking this question. Not saying I want to do , it but the thought hit me this morning and I thought it was rather intriguing and wondered if it had ever been purposefully done, and if AKC would register it.

    In cattle it happens some when they flush a cow..... If they want heifers from one bull and bull calves for show steers from another they will do a mixed flush and sort out the calves when born with DNA.... With dogs it could be done even easier with color in some cases, ESP with a yellow female if one male was yellow and the other not yellow factored...

    Please understand my mind works in hypotheticals and outside the box and what ifs..... But when a female ESP one that has been campaigned has limited chance for litters and ESP with AI would be very feasible.
    Fritz Baier
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  2. #2
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    It is possible and think it has been done. Think all they need are DNA tests at the end to determine the correct registration. Not sure about AKC, most of my dealings have been with FDSB.

  3. #3
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    It has been done and the pups DNA tested for registration.

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    So, there was a guy once who swore his up-eared, lanky, sage colored dog was a Chesapeake and was registered as such. The dam wasn't talking about her night out with a GSD and it was her word against the AKC.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    It's on the honor system at akc. Know of a breeding where they used two studs but only registered litter with one, akc said breeder was the only one who could do anything about it.
    "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching"....J.C. Watts

  7. #7
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    It's done quite a bit. All pups need to be DNA tested. I don't know why you'd go to the trouble of not DNA testing. Especially if you are keeping a pup. A lot of times it's done when semen quality on shipped or frozen is only so so. Then you do a side by side with a local dog or another shipment of chilled from another dog. Not real ethical to sell a dog from this type of breeding without DNA testing. Unless the litter won't be registered.
    Sue Puffenbarger
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    I know people who have intentionally used 2 sires for the reasons Suepuff stated. I did a breeding a few years ago that we thought we'd have to DNA. I'd leased the female and she disappeared overnight shortly after she got here and right after she came in season. I took her to my vet's and got a progesterone test and she was still early in her cycle so at the appointed time shortly after she ovulated, she was bred to another CBR a week later. My vet did say it wasn't unheard of for semen to be viable for longer than a week and I might have to DNA the pups in case she'd been bred the night she went missing. Well, when she whelped, no DNA needed--she hatched out 12 black pups. (Chesapeakes do not come in black). TUrns out the male she'd been bred to was sterile and the breeding that must've happened a week before she ovulated, produced a dozen pups. The sire was a coonhound; some here might remember my litter of coon-a-bay retrievers.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I've known a few people who have done such. It's usually done when using frozen semen of unknown quality, very old or very limited. They do a Frozen AI then back it up with fresh AI from a different stud 2-3 days later. All pups are DNA tested and registered to the correct father. Of the two I know of; 1) 100% of the puppies were from 20 yr. old frozen; 2) 100% from the second stud. It basically gives you a better chance on having a normal sized litter, should the frozen not work, very well. It's added cost but for some owners it seems to be worth it.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Actually, when researching what to do with a litter with more than one sire, I read that it is possible, but rarely ever happens that pups in a litter have different sires. Hunt'EmUp's two examples seem to bear that out, that even if intentionally done, the pups all end up being by only one of the two sires. I think what probably happens far more often is that a litter is born and the registered sire is not the actual sire because the female got out or was unsupervised at some point turing her heat cycle. After all... how would you know if the dogs were the same breed? And as Raymond LIttle pointed out, the AKC is all honor system right now.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

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