The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: E-Collar Introduction Issues

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Jackson TN/Louisville KY
    Posts
    10

    Default E-Collar Introduction Issues

    Guys-

    Sorry for asking so many questions, I know this is my third one in two days so I will try to shut up for a while after this one.

    My BLM is 5 months old and knows: Sit, Down, Stay, Kennel, Here, Place, Heel, Hold, and Fetch- (Force fetch is still not mastered)

    He has been wearing his new Sport Dog Brand 825 Collar all week so that we could begin work with it. I began working with it last night with a slip lead at heel and was conditioning to the sit command. He didn't seem to feel it much, so after I switch out the short probes for the longer ones.

    Now my dilemma, today we out to a guy from work's farm to work on collar conditioning to sit while walking at heel. As we walked, I would pull up on the lead to the command sit and would hold down the continuous until his butt hit the ground and then would instantly stop pressure. I felt as tho he wasn't getting much connection because he was not showing much of a reaction to the stimulation so I adjust the collar tightly behind his ears on the top of his neck. He was then feeling the stimulation but it kinda of freaked his out. After that he was kind of stand offish to me and was not really wanting to mind me like he normally does.

    Do I stop e-collar all together? Work with vibration stimulation first then electric? Electric to a different command?

    I don't know, he has been being more stubborn lately, which I believe is because he's a "teenager" now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, we have had no issue in training until now.

    I also what to note that once I took the collar off that he was still minding quicker to sit than normal. I did put the collar back on him, just so he can continue to be used to wearing it.

    Thanks in advanced, sorry for so many threads in such a short time.

    Danny
    A Case of the Memphis Blues - Case

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Longview Texas
    Posts
    590

    Default

    So did you go to a whole new location to CC than you had previously been working on obedience? What level was the collar up to when you finally made connection? Most likely what happened was you were up a few levels when you finally made skin contact for the first time. What other types of aversives have you used? Pinch collar, choke chain, stick? Your dog is still pretty young and may be a little too immature especially if you have not used any real pressure up to this point. Some dogs just react this way when they feel the collar for the first time. Unfortunately only you can decide which it was. Or you could try finding someone who has experience and ask them to watch and help.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Marissa E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    489

    Default

    I do not CC to sit first. I CC to here, heel, kennel (or place on a raised platform), THEN sit.
    I do not want my dog to associate CC with sitting and doing nothing OR clinging to me for comfort.

    This is a good idea of how I CC. (For the record I CC my labs AND my hunting beagles which are really tough and thick headed and generally are not fast learners).

    http://www.dogtra.com/download/pat_n...n_training.htm

    Marissa Everett

    Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,132

    Default

    Have you ever done this before? Are you following a program or winging it?
    Read Tony's post again.
    Two things jump out at me:
    Sport Dog collar
    Continuous until butt hits the ground.

    I would do a search on Sport Dog on rtf
    I follow Lardy and he uses continuous but it is one second only.(one thousand one).

    Nothing wrong with starting with condition on sit.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  5. #5
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,249

    Default

    Does anybody think that the command to start CC with depends somewhat on the dog? I started mine on "here" on a theory that he was fearless and I wanted to make sure he would come to me. We have had some well-documented steadiness issues, and I just think every once in a while about whether that might be better had I started with "sit" (no motion) instead of "here" (motion). Turning Marisa's theory on its ear, at least with respect to our situation I wonder if I would have come out any better by teaching him first that sitting and doing nothing until told otherwise was a very good thing.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitzmand View Post
    Guys-

    Sorry for asking so many questions, I know this is my third one in two days so I will try to shut up for a while after this one.

    My BLM is 5 months old and knows: Sit, Down, Stay, Kennel, Here, Place, Heel, Hold, and Fetch- (Force fetch is still not mastered)

    He has been wearing his new Sport Dog Brand 825 Collar all week so that we could begin work with it. I began working with it last night with a slip lead at heel and was conditioning to the sit command. He didn't seem to feel it much, so after I switch out the short probes for the longer ones.

    Now my dilemma, today we out to a guy from work's farm to work on collar conditioning to sit while walking at heel. As we walked, I would pull up on the lead to the command sit and would hold down the continuous until his butt hit the ground and then would instantly stop pressure. I felt as tho he wasn't getting much connection because he was not showing much of a reaction to the stimulation so I adjust the collar tightly behind his ears on the top of his neck. He was then feeling the stimulation but it kinda of freaked his out. After that he was kind of stand offish to me and was not really wanting to mind me like he normally does.

    Do I stop e-collar all together? Work with vibration stimulation first then electric? Electric to a different command?

    I don't know, he has been being more stubborn lately, which I believe is because he's a "teenager" now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, we have had no issue in training until now.

    I also what to note that once I took the collar off that he was still minding quicker to sit than normal. I did put the collar back on him, just so he can continue to be used to wearing it.

    Thanks in advanced, sorry for so many threads in such a short time.

    Danny
    I would get help or if you can't then follow Lardy's CC DVD!IMO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rick S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    I would get help or if you can't then follow Lardy's CC DVD!IMO
    Please do yourself and your dog a favor and follow this advice! Good luck

  8. #8

    Default

    I would start on heel with a short nick saying heel and a pull in from a lead on a turn any time he didn't turn rite with you. He'll easily associate the correction. No continuous whatsoever at this point.

  9. #9

    Default

    As Wayne said, continuous stim until dog is beside you then release. I CC to sit as well. I turn it down to very low on DT collar. And say "sit" nick sit "nick". Yes the dog will be sitting on the first sir command but the idea is for him to get use to the pressure of sit command as well. This mimics a slip lead when you pull upward for sit. Also, slow down a bit he may not be ready for FF.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,965

    Default

    Umm the collar is supposed to freak a dog out, that is why we need to condition a dog to it. It's basically teaching a dog to handle pressure, if the dog is not given pressure, does not get a bit freaked and learn how to overcome it in a controlled environment, how is he gonna learn to work through pressure and recover, when he encounters it in an uncontrolled environment? Collar conditioning is freak the dog out, work the dog back up, freak the dog out, work him back up, eventually the dog learns not to freak out, how to recover quickly and get back to work. We use OB commands, because dogs are familiar with correction-pressure being applied and familiar with the command, thus it's easy for them to associate the new collar pressure with to having to do something. It keeps them moving, command compliance and praise; calms them after they freak out a bit. Later you will teach how to turn off the pressure. However Actual compliance to the commands, and turning off the pressure, doesn't really have anything to do with collar conditioning, applying the pressure and teaching a dog to work through it is, the main point.

    P.S. I think you said you were using the collar on continuous until the dog complied with the command. In CCing you hit the collar with an initial jolt, and then work through it, expecting a dog to obey a command when he's in a freaked state, and doesn't understand a collar isn't going to get you very far. It'll most likely just shut the dog down. Your dogs collar relationship will set the tone for your entire training program for pretty much the life of the dog. If you don't know how to do it, seek professional help, this is not something you want to be incomplete or to screw-up.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-16-2014 at 11:50 AM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •