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Thread: E-Collar Introduction Issues

  1. #11
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    A little late on the response, I believe my mistake was holding the continuous stimulation till his butt hit the ground. I started using nicks the next day and he is responding quite well and is beginning to understand the concept. I have been using "Here" and "Sit" primarily along with "Kennel"

    Thanks again!
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  2. #12
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    "the collar is supposed to freak a dog out"

    I just read that and "freaked out" (a little bit).
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  3. #13
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    I will start collar conditioning soon and probably leave it to the pros

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Umm the collar is supposed to freak a dog out, that is why we need to condition a dog to it. It's basically teaching a dog to handle pressure, if the dog is not given pressure, does not get a bit freaked and learn how to overcome it in a controlled environment, how is he gonna learn to work through pressure and recover, when he encounters it in an uncontrolled environment? Collar conditioning is freak the dog out, work the dog back up, freak the dog out, work him back up, eventually the dog learns not to freak out, how to recover quickly and get back to work. We use OB commands, because dogs are familiar with correction-pressure being applied and familiar with the command, thus it's easy for them to associate the new collar pressure with to having to do something. It keeps them moving, command compliance and praise; calms them after they freak out a bit. Later you will teach how to turn off the pressure. However Actual compliance to the commands, and turning off the pressure, doesn't really have anything to do with collar conditioning, applying the pressure and teaching a dog to work through it is, the main point.

    P.S. I think you said you were using the collar on continuous until the dog complied with the command. In CCing you hit the collar with an initial jolt, and then work through it, expecting a dog to obey a command when he's in a freaked state, and doesn't understand a collar isn't going to get you very far. It'll most likely just shut the dog down. Your dogs collar relationship will set the tone for your entire training program for pretty much the life of the dog. If you don't know how to do it, seek professional help, this is not something you want to be incomplete or to screw-up.
    This doesn't seem like fair application to your dog and correct use of the collar. Never read that in Lardy's notes to "freak the dog out"??? IMO
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Cass's Avatar
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    I don't like continuous. I CC'ed my dog to sit as his first command but I only ever used nick. To me continuous is a button left alone unless you are not getting the dog's attention or are breaking it of something. If you started sitting and something started to continually shock you you would probably freak out too. Sit - regular collar correction - sit! Then the next time command Sit - "nick" - Sit. You need the dog to associate that the e-collar correction is the same as his normal collar correction. I don't know if you use a slip lead or a choke chain but I sure hope when he doesn't comply with sit that you don't give him a "continuous" choke until his butt hits the ground. Use your e-collar as you would use a normal training collar. Timing is everything.

  6. #16
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    I think that its a personal preference. I personally condition on low level continuous and then transition to nicks. This method builds speed and confidence not that either way is wrong. One thing that I would note is that if you only use one method or the other when conditioning then you are robbing yourself and your dog of a valuable tool you may find you need later on.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Advanced Ecollars have a continuous and momentary mode. Lardy calls pushing the continuous button a "burn" and pushing the momentary button a "nick". Lardy uses continuous for ecollar conditioning and switches to momentary when starting FTP.
    Lardy's continuos is for one second. The momentary is preset. You cannot duplicate the momentary by having the ecollar in continuous mode and pressing and releasing very quickly. Lardy doesn't use the phrase "freaking out" but he does say it is supposed to hurt.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    This doesn't seem like fair application to your dog and correct use of the collar. Never read that in Lardy's notes to "freak the dog out"??? IMO
    Oh come on . Perhaps a better reply would be it's completely natural for a dog to freak out during the CC process, this hesitancy is necessary so the dog can be worked through it, and learn to recover. So that the E-collar becomes a positive working tool and not just a negative punishment. Or wait not Freak out. I need a complicated P.C. word Learn to and adjust their initial-natural-inherit responses to collar correction, so the dog learns how to recover from corrections in a progressive way. Better? I'm just playing MLM .

    You could go back to the CC of 20 years ago, people say "oh what's this collar thing" strap it on with a purple plug. Hit the dog with the collar when he disobeys, dog gets mad and chases you all up on to the truck. (Way before U-tube, but classic CCing)

    Dogs handle initial collar stimulation in a few ways most either freak-bolt or shut-down-stop, we CC to teach a different response (moving forward), and adapt them to recover from collar pressure. If they don't get freaked-bugged (made uncomfortable?) They don't learn the proper ways to respond/adapt,to being freaked-bugged (made uncomfortable?). If they don't learn that, you might as well just have the collar sitting on the bench or turned off for as much as you'll actually be able to use it. CCing is probably one of the least understood and hardest to explain processes for a newbie trainer, it also one of the most important steps and is most of the time not-done thoroughly nor correctly by many trainers. On lead CCing is a start, but you don't just finish. It's a progressive process that you have to keep re-enforcing well into advanced handling. Until the dog & you understand both direct & indirect collar pressure, when and how to use it, so you can train and correct, with the collar to optimize performance. When in doubt get help, and do this step right. Or you could do what I did my first time muddle through, get to advanced handling have to hire a pro to figure out what's going wrong, (go back over everything) diagnoses an improper collar-condition relationship (but I watched the video, & read the book ). Get to go back and start over, with a dog that is already soured on the collar; 4-6 months to Fix-it (sort've) the dog will never have a great collar relationship. I have to go much higher with her, than most dogs who learned proper the first time, but we can at least use the tool. Plus side in those 4-6 months I learned all about proper and thorough collar conditioning, and it's importance is stressed every time, I have to get into a collar battle with the dog, I screwed up. The new pups have a much better collar relationship, (they did freak out initially) they can take higher pressures, but it's not necessary to get proper responses. Their CCing is not done they are just learning advanced handling & indirect collar pressure. Still I've had guidance on how to do it, with them. There's no way I'd chance screw-uping that bad again, this step is too important.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-17-2014 at 02:14 PM.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    Advanced Ecollars have a continuous and momentary mode. Lardy calls pushing the continuous button a "burn" and pushing the momentary button a "nick". Lardy uses continuous for ecollar conditioning and switches to momentary when starting FTP.
    Lardy's continuos is for one second. The momentary is preset. You cannot duplicate the momentary by having the ecollar in continuous mode and pressing and releasing very quickly. Lardy doesn't use the phrase "freaking out" but he does say it is supposed to hurt.
    Wayne;

    Like you I think the definition of contentious has to be more defined. To me a continuous pressure is when you press the button until the behavior is completed. A one second burn on a Constance is still a nick.

    The English language can be complicated.

    Keith
    Last edited by truthseeker; 07-17-2014 at 01:47 PM. Reason: spelling

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