The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 159

Thread: Judging bias

  1. #21
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,948

    Default

    Umm Bias in anything...umm...never happens...umm; This is why I don't have a book listing clubs, judges, who trains with who, and results of, nor do I call people up to ask about such things before I enter a trial, hunt test or anything. However it's almost impossible to keep a outright winner out...if there's no outright winner 1st & 2nd are usually pretty correct ...placements after that we'll umm.. 3,4,RJ placements can be highly subject to interpretation .

    Still if your worried about a HT bias, take all the titles off your entry express account, remove sire -dam info, only nod whenever anyone mentions HT;s at the trial and they'll won't know where you come from
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-22-2014 at 03:22 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  2. #22
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    St. Peters, MO
    Posts
    1,867

    Default

    Same thing can be said about women, goldens, chessies, and labs other than black.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  3. #23
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    I saw the post as well:



    This was my reply:



    i do think a). there are some people who are political and that's just the nature of competitive sports. I know 2 judges that as long as their one close friend doesn't pick up, there friend will win or place. Well known in my circuit. I had two members of a field trial committee and a placing contestant apologize to me at one trial when I got the RJ. Everyone knew what happened. To pretend it doesn't happen would be living in a fairy tale. I just won't run under those types of judges, as I would get more pleasure by flushing my entry fee down the toilet one dollar at a time and watching the swirl. But clubs should just not ask these people to judge. In large, I think there are more people who try and do the right thing by the dogs than to pick based on who is running the dog.

    and b: there are hunt test people who don't understand the judging of field trials. I was running my own dog in a qual against a well known hunt test pro. To this day, I am sure he still thinks he beat my dog because my dog hooked a retired gun (something I personally believe is impossible since you can't hook what you can't see) and pinned a mark. His dog went straight to the area, and put up a moderate hunt. His line may have been better, but my dog's mark was clearly superior. He felt that because he was in the area of the fall, the hunt really didn't matter. This shows a lack of understanding to me.

    So, I think there is some of both. but it exists in hunt tests as well. People who get passes that barely meet the standard.
    With all due respect Susan, your reply to the facebook post only proves the point of the original poster.

    Get in the game and pay some dues? People look differently when you might be judging them?

    That's the kind of talk that supports people's theories (most of which are really false). I've heard the same thing from plenty of amateur field trialers that were beaten by an established pro as well.

    By and large I think the best dog/handler team wins every weekend. There will never be a world without bias but I think those patterns become apparent very quickly.

    Mostly, I think people who don't run trials and complain about politics are just looking for an excuse not to get out and lose every weekend for the first 100 weekends they run.

    When 4 out of 75-100 dogs a week get a placement, odds are 90+% are gonna lose. You have to accept that to play and most people don't have the stomach for those odds.

    There are a ton of people on our local circuit that run week after week and rarely if ever place. They do it because they love and it and one day... they will be in the ribbons.

    It's no different than shooting sporting clays, some days I have a good day and my partners (who are all better shots than me) have a bad one and guess what? I win! Most of the time though, I have to settle for taking the clinic they put on every Sunday. It's OK. I love it. If I had to win every week I wouldn't be able to play.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 07-21-2014 at 06:33 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #24
    Senior Member vanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Southeastern WI
    Posts
    112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    With all due respect Susan, your reply to the facebook post only proves the point of the original poster.

    Get in the game and pay some dues? People look differently when you might be judging them?

    That's the kind of talk that supports people's theories (most of which are really false). I've heard the same thing from plenty of amateur field trialers that were beaten by an established pro as well.

    By and large I think the best dog/handler team wins every weekend. There will never be a world without bias but I think those patterns become apparent very quickly.

    Mostly, I think people who don't run trials and complain about politics are just looking for an excuse not to get out and lose every weekend for the first 100 weekends they run.

    When 4 out of 75-100 dogs a week get a placement, odds are 90+% are gonna lose. You have to accept that to play and most people don't have the stomach for those odds.

    There are a ton of people on our local circuit that run week after week and rarely if ever place. They do it because they love and it and one day... they will be in the ribbons.

    It's no different than shooting sporting clays, some days I have a good day and my partners (who are all better shots than me) have a bad one and guess what? I win! Most of the time though, I have to settle for taking the clinic they put on every Sunday. It's OK. I love it. If I had to win every week I wouldn't be able to play.
    Been judging and running dogs for 18 yrs.Not a pile of experience but enough.I started in HRC,went to a couple grands.Ran master and went to MN.Got a puppy that was gonna be a hunt test dog but a guy a had just met recognized him and said I should run Derby's with him.I didn't know crap about field trials .He said stick with me and I'll show you.I've been training with him 11 yrs now and have become close friends.He gave me these words of wisdom after I started running all age stakes and I'll never forget them." If u win or place , thank the judges and go home.If u think u got screwed , thank the judges and go home because a:sooner or later it will come your way and b:nothing u say will change the outcome.U have to have a measure of thick skin to play the trial game and if u don't, u won't b around long."Came from a guy with over 50 yrs training dogs and running field trials.I'll never forget those words
    Last edited by vanman; 07-21-2014 at 08:50 PM.
    Just frikin do it!

  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Noble, OK
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    By emphasis I don't mean judged easier in FT. It just seems to me that HT judges, in general, tend to use the blind to drop dogs rather than marks.
    It could be a accumalation of things that make it appear at the time of being dropped, that is was the blind. When all it was, is the final straw that broke the camel's back.

    Bill

  6. #26
    Senior Member vanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Southeastern WI
    Posts
    112

    Default

    That could be it too ha ha.....good point!
    Just frikin do it!

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    When you thought you did well and did not win it is easier to blame the judges than to look into the mirror.
    Video doesn't lie Ed. Dogs that hooked the gunner won and dogs that went straight to the bird without a hunt didn't place. How can we collectively make judging more objective?

  8. #28
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    7,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigcat View Post
    Video doesn't lie Ed. Dogs that hooked the gunner won and dogs that went straight to the bird without a hunt didn't place. How can we collectively make judging more objective?
    You talking about a derby?
    Bill Davis

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    165

    Default

    You can figure it out for yourself, Ie GDG, but regardless judging in FT gets worse if they follow Susan's methodology.

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    165

    Default

    If the FT game is ever to progress to engaging younger/amateur participants, the politics need to change. Otherwise it'll be a bunch of 60-80 year old trailers who feel because they showed up they need to place. Period. End of story.

    If a young boxer knocks out De La Hoya and loses because he's a no name from a small town, what does that do for the sport? Exactly the same thing it does for the FT COMMUNITY, discourages competing against the well known handlers/owners because there's no chance of placing. With all due respect, screw Susan's thought process, because it does nothing but facilitate the status quo.
    Last edited by thebigcat; 07-22-2014 at 09:29 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •