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Thread: Judging bias

  1. #81
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    Bill don't mean to offend you, remember I am a hunter not a trial gypsy. I pheasant as much as snow/canada goose hunt. Pheasant hunting my dogs does it all, auto pilot I just shoot, and badly at that! She produces the birds with NO handling raw drive and talent. Duck hunting not so much, mostly blind retrieves so she relies on me as a team as you say. This trail game seems to riddled with politics, whining, and excuses why someone didn't place were they thought they should have.

    I prefer the potholes and pheasant fields none of that occurs there, I have learned much form field trial people and all of my dogs are NFC FC AFC bred so appreciate what it takes to get there. Just seems the fun doesn't drive most folks in hunt test/trials thats my only point. Trials seem much more like the Kentucky derby with the hats on women who don't hunt, men who have the cigars bragging on their latest stock reports, the only thing missing is the mint julep!
    I live for my dogs, the training, the hunting, the test, all of it and sending my dogs off to a pro (if I could afford it, then would have to hunt less!) I would loose all of the joy form me in order to say I won! I can't replace my dogs squealing to like puppy when they see the shotgun go into the truck and the dekes in the trailer, pricless.
    Not offending me. I have been a hunter all my life. You asked a question and I tried to answer it based on my experience. Closest thing I have seen to your question was an FC AFC being run by a handler with early onset dementia. He could not remember the order of the birds in an all age test... As such was not much help to the dog. She marked them all in spite of him... Somehow lined the blinds... And WON the trial! Granted, it was a small trial... But an amazing feat by a talented dog... And very sad at the same time for the handler who had been in the game over 30 years.

    No matter how great these dogs are, on MOST all age tests today, the dog needs an immense amount of help from it's handler.

    All the other stuff, politics, etc... Thats just stuff. When I was younger I worried more about all that. All you need to waste energy on is what YOU can control. For me... That boils down to my handling and my dogs training. Thats about it.
    Bill Davis

  2. #82
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I don't like that mentality either, and heard that a lot when I started running trials. Fortunately it isn't the truth, there are quite a few new people running out here who broke in winning and placing over many old timers. .
    That's Refreshing, I'm heading up to MT this Thurs, to run HRC, I'll be staying a bit. Perhaps I'll put in a few trials and see these things. Unfortunately most trials I've been to have seem to be "pay your dues" trials, who does who train with, who's client is the judge, who owns property. Same blind on the same property, in 2 separate trials (a week apart), a blind that is pretty evidently, ran by the locals; Dogs don't just come to the line and pin-point a blind. I'm hoping it's just the few trials I've been to, but I'm learning pretty quickly to pay attention to who's judging which trial, and their connections to participants. I prefer to be an optimist that most people & judges are fair, but my experiences is leading me in other directions. Has nothing to do with sour-grapes, my dog or her performance, just interesting, bird-throws, call-backs, placements, and other items that keep coming up.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-22-2014 at 03:20 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  3. #83
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    That's Refreshing, I'm heading up to MT this Thurs, to run HRC, I'll be staying a bit. Perhaps I'll put in a few trials and see these things. Unfortunately most trials I've been to have seem to be "pay your dues" trials, who does who train with, who's client is the judge, who owns property. Same blind on the same property, in 2 separate trials (a week apart), a blind that is pretty evidently, ran by the locals; Dogs don't just come to the line and pin-point a blind. I'm hoping it's just the few trials I've been to, but I'm learning pretty quickly to pay attention to who's judging which trial, and their connections participants. I prefer to be an optimist that most people & judges are fair, but my experiences is leading me in other directions. Has nothing to do with sour-grapes, my dog or her performance, just interesting, bird-throws, call-backs, placements, and other items that keep coming up.
    Why bother?
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  4. #84
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    That's Refreshing, I'm heading up to MT this Thurs, to run HRC, I'll be staying a bit. Perhaps I'll put in a few trials and see these things. Unfortunately most trials I've been to have seem to be "pay your dues" trials, who does who train with, who's client is the judge, who owns property. Same blind on the same property, in 2 separate trials (a week apart), a blind that is pretty evidently, ran by the locals; Dogs don't just come to the line and pin-point a blind. I'm hoping it's just the few trials I've been to, but I'm learning pretty quickly to pay attention to who's judging which trial, and their connections to participants. I prefer to be an optimist that most people & judges are fair, but my experiences is leading me in other directions. Has nothing to do with sour-grapes, my dog or her performance, just interesting, bird-throws, call-backs, placements, and other items that keep coming up.
    After looking at your signature line I wonder why you regularly post about field trials when you obviously participate in other venues. Report back to us when you have something gleaned from personal field trial experience other than what you heard or might have seen from a brief visit to the gallery.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    After looking at your signature line I wonder why you regularly post about field trials when you obviously participate in other venues. Report back to us when you have something gleaned from personal field trial experience other than what you heard or might have seen from a brief visit to the gallery.
    Since you brought this up. It appears he ran or runs NAHRA in the past or currently. Thus, it is a "GMHR" not "GMRH" which is in his signature line? What do I know?
    Last edited by Dan Storts; 07-22-2014 at 03:50 PM.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    Why bother?
    Oh so Many Reasons Hunting season is months away; I've already finished the other venues. Then there's the tempting QAA letters to ensure my dog is well rounded. I get to combat stereotypes I've heard over & over that meat dogs with questionable pedigrees are somehow inferior, that a working person can't compete. Plus a rule I live by; is one shouldn't offer opinions, judgements, nor make generalizations on other venues, activity's, etc. unless they've actually tried it (So I'm tiring it). Did I mention I'm a sadist and I like abuse

    Oh then there's the comments made by the theoretically untouchable and unquestionable FT people, who haven't ran anything but FTs, don't hunt, and get to pass judgement on everybody, who isn't like them, always fall back on the talk to me when you've done something. Get to stand on a soap-box, and intimidate people on an internet forum, poke fun at grammar-spelling, titles whatever; but what do I know And now I'm done with this thread, we must all have our dalliances, but nothing can be accomplished here
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-22-2014 at 03:55 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  7. #87
    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
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    HA.Ha.Ha.Ha

  8. #88
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Oh so Many Reasons Hunting season is months away; I've already finished the other venues. Then there's the tempting QAA letters to ensure my dog is well rounded. I get to combat stereotypes I've heard over & over that meat dogs with questionable pedigrees are somehow inferior, that a working person can't compete. Plus a rule I live by; is one shouldn't offer opinions, judgements, nor make generalizations on other venues, activity's, etc. unless they've actually tried it (So I'm tiring it). Did I mention I'm a sadist and I like abuse

    Oh then there's the comments made by the theoretically untouchable and unquestionable FT people, who haven't ran anything but FTs, don't hunt, and get to pass judgement on everybody, who isn't like them, always fall back on the talk to me when you've done something. Get to stand on a soap-box, and intimidate people on an internet forum, poke fun at grammar-spelling, titles whatever; but what do I know And now I'm done with this thread, we must all have our dalliances, but nothing can be accomplished here
    .Are you absolutely sure you are not me
    Have a good season.
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  9. #89
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Oh so Many Reasons Hunting season is months away; I've already finished the other venues. Then there's the tempting QAA letters to ensure my dog is well rounded. I get to combat stereotypes I've heard over & over that meat dogs with questionable pedigrees are somehow inferior, that a working person can't compete. Plus a rule I live by; is one shouldn't offer opinions, judgements, nor make generalizations on other venues, activity's, etc. unless they've actually tried it (So I'm tiring it). Did I mention I'm a sadist and I like abuse

    Oh then there's the comments made by the theoretically untouchable and unquestionable FT people, who haven't ran anything but FTs, don't hunt, and get to pass judgement on everybody, who isn't like them, always fall back on the talk to me when you've done something. Get to stand on a soap-box, and intimidate people on an internet forum, poke fun at grammar-spelling, titles whatever; but what do I know And now I'm done with this thread, we must all have our dalliances, but nothing can be accomplished here
    So is invoking righteous indignation a tactic employed in high school debate class?

  10. #90
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I have read this thread with amusement and bemusement, intermixed with some amazement and frustration.

    Field trial judges are a cross section of society. If a group of people engage in a task, there will be:
    - People who are diligent and talented at the task
    - People who work hard, but lack talent
    - People who have talent, but are lazy
    - People who have neither talent nor dedication
    - People who are crooked
    - People who relish the wielding of power

    You come across these people every day - or at least I do.

    So, I'm not surprised (disappointed perhaps) when I come across them at Field Trials or any other event. Because I have seen people in all these categories in elementary school, junior high, high school, college, law school, in the workplace, etc. throughout my life

    Why should Field Trials be any different than other aspects of my life?

    If you are going to participate in FT and enjoy the time you spend doing so, you have to learn how to enjoy working with the dogs, and let the other stuff pass by.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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