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Thread: Judging bias

  1. #121
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    Bill you are wrong on many things here.

    Maybe you should hunt a day or two where I do, then you would know what you are talking about when it comes to hunting.

    Enjoy your dogs,
    Maybe...
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    Bill Davis

  2. #122
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    Shirely glad to see one of your dogs was trained by you, good feeling isn't it? Not a hunting snob at all and my just joining states nothing of the fact I have been training hounds and retrievers for more than 30 years. No I can't brag I put 500,000 miles on my truck, (hell couldn't even afford the gas for that trip!) but I will tell you I have a lot of miles in my boots setting up snow geese dekes, pounding cattails in 8 below weather chasing pheasants, and I have a shotgun with thousands and thousands of rounds dropping wild game for my retrievers while guiding clients on hunts.

    Secret: I have no idea where you hunt, but Woodies are the first ducks to leave North Dakota when it gets cold. They are long gone by the time the water turns hard here so glad you shot them on a day with ice.

    PS; Hint...those are not Greenheads, those are Canadian geese, google them, there is a difference between green heads and geese.
    Did you mean "Canada Geese?"

    I thought so..................

    If I may add....I have not run any FT's with my current dog.
    I have worked a few at my club.
    I have sat in gunners stations and watched entire stakes.

    I am NOT a FT judge, though I dabble in judging HT's.

    However, I keep an eye on what I think is fine dog work.
    And in every trial but 1 that I have watched (maybe 80% of all runs) I agreed with the judges choice for #1.
    The one time I would have picked another, he finished 2nd.

    Not sure what this means, if anything, but I shared that observation and was asked to post it, so I did!

    I think the Judges may be biased towards GOOD dog work!!!

    I love to watch GOOD dog work.
    I have an idea in my mind what that is.

    I know a relatively experienced FT'r and FT Judge that has posted in this thread.
    He came to the RTF training day last year (without a dog) and threw birds all day long for us (most being primarily involved in HT's).
    He displayed NO bias.............


    I guess the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as well as the ugly!
    Last edited by road kill; 07-23-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  3. #123
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    Bill you are wrong on many things here. One,I don't desire to "attack" field trials one only has to read a very limited posts to se FT people attacked themselves with no problem, all one needs to do and sit back and read, they fight amongst themselves enough to entertain me. Second, you feed your dog, be it a couch dog, FT dog, or hunter I have no issues either way. I also have run a few Qs and derbies, I like trials and met some great people. Most important saw some very good dog work.I will run more this next spring Q and derby and I will not complain or whine win or loose, I will enjoy the ride.

    Also I am glad you think you got good hunting in liberal ultra gun control state Ill, that way you can leave the hunting alone here in North Dakota. My dog retrieves more birds on one day of snow goose hunting then most will in 5 seasons hunting in Ill.

    For the record I have been to more then just a "few" trials, worked many of them. Maybe you should hunt a day or two where I do, then you would know what you are talking about when it comes to hunting.

    Enjoy your dogs,
    First what does it matter if a person trains their own dog or even hunts at all, our sport is about the dogs and retrieving at a high level. The fact that you put a heavy emphasis on hunting with your dogs is great for you and your dogs, but it doesn't make them any better than anybody else's dog. Our sport is comprised of a variety of successful FTer's, some hunt some don't, some use a pro full time, some just send their dogs on the road with a pro for the winter if they live and work up north, or visa versa if they live down south, some day train with a pro and some are completely amateur trained. Come the weekend field trial the judge doesn't ask which category you fit in, they just judge your dog. As for fighting on this thread, I think that's pretty typical of any internet forum with different personalities.

    For the record I started in hunt test, have run field trials for 18 years, judge 2-3 trials a year and take every hunting season off from October 1st to early January to hunt my dogs.


    ps: You do know that Illinois borders the upper Mississippi River and that great flyway with millions of birds, many are born in your pot hole duck factory. I wouldn't put down hunting in any State, but Bill lives in Tennisee and lived for a long time in Alaska, Bill knows hunting.
    Last edited by John Robinson; 07-23-2014 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #124
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    I am entering my first post on rtf and I normally would not do so but, I happen to be the field trial chair for the controversial derby. My name is Dan Sayles, and I am also a pro trainer and have been for 30 yrs. along with myself and 3or 4 others we are the guts of our club. We have prided ourselves on putting on a quality event with the upmost respect for our handlers. This particular trial we spent over 2000 dollars bringing in judges from all parts of the country, and they did a fantastic job. Our derby judges that have been so falsely accused of bias have over50 yrs of experience in training, judging, and competing in this game that so many of us love. Neither of them had any vested interest in any pros or amateurs running the trial. In fact until the places were signed into the books, the only thing they knew were the numbers. Now to put things in perspective. We had people from all over the US here, and we really appreciate it and to let you newcomers know how hard it is to put on a quality event some of the out staters are very generous in their offers to help work at times. Example Rick VanBergen offer to stake chair open after he ran dog 2 in the open. Wayne Schochenski judged the quality, and then helped with the amateur and tailgate party. Jeff Lyons from out east offers to do whatever he can to help, Jeff Bandel offers to throw for the open on Sunday and Danny Farmer always is gracious with his help and equipment. Those are just a few examples of how this game is supposed to work. To sit and video a stake for the sole purpose of causing trouble, I would advise you to look in the mirror and see if you truely have a passion for this game. Too many good people busts their butts and give up weekends away from their families to keep this sport vibrant. In closing i would like to thank everyone that participated in our trial, attended our tailgate party, and gave a weekend out of their lives to help us. In the words of Bobby Smith's 3 yr old granddaughter: you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit. Thanks again

  5. #125
    Senior Member DSMITH1651's Avatar
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    Wow Dan, did not know what derby this fit was over but I know one of the judges personally and I can promise you he is not bias to anyone if he placed a dog over another there was a reason.
    Duane
    PS thanks for putting on a nice trial.
    MAGGIES CADILLAC JACK (RIP)
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  6. #126
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Im not a field trialer.......... Period.......

    I did run a derby right befor Flinch aged out, just to see how she would do.

    She went out first series right out of the gate.
    The folks that were running that trial, and the Judges,were the most friendly,personable people I have ever run into running Hunt Tests.
    This was my first FT experience, and it was wonderful!
    The members of the comitee, talked to the judges, and us handelers that were dropped, were told we could continue to paly but, we were out of competition.
    Flinch and I were able to run as test dog for the following series. I remember the series going extra in number so the judges could get answers about the dogs that were still in contention.
    I was very proud that Flinch got to sit at a FT line, and was able to do an OK job on the remaining series. It was a wonderful experience.

    Now,,all that said:

    I am a realist. I do NOT think I have the rescources to have a REAL possibility to compete in FT. I am an awful Handler... I have an average dog.

    The HT game, for ME, is a realistic venue for me to enjoy.
    I too have been chastised for my lack of commitment to the sport..
    I train everyday, on the limited grounds I have available to me.
    There is a FT training group. led by a very respected Pro that lets me join in on the weekends!
    My experience with her, has been absolutely positive.
    I am busy enough, and my "dedication" MUST go to TRAINING my young dog...
    Some of us have Goals very different than others. I think we ALL need to respect that.

    I wont post on this thread again, but thought I would express my experience with FT people.. It has been wonderful!.,,, and I DO hunt.

    A TRULY competitive FT dog, is a very special animal,, I dont think many HT folks understand the training and talent by BOTH the handler and dog goes into the success of a FT title..
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 07-23-2014 at 11:38 AM.
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  7. #127
    Senior Member DSMITH1651's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    Shirely glad to see one of your dogs was trained by you, good feeling isn't it? Not a hunting snob at all and my just joining states nothing of the fact I have been training hounds and retrievers for more than 30 years. No I can't brag I put 500,000 miles on my truck, (hell couldn't even afford the gas for that trip!) but I will tell you I have a lot of miles in my boots setting up snow geese dekes, pounding cattails in 8 below weather chasing pheasants, and I have a shotgun with thousands and thousands of rounds dropping wild game for my retrievers while guiding clients on hunts.

    Secret: I have no idea where you hunt, but Woodies are the first ducks to leave North Dakota when it gets cold. They are long gone by the time the water turns hard here so glad you shot them on a day with ice.

    PS; Hint...those are not Greenheads, those are Canadian geese, google them, there is a difference between green heads and geese.


    Woody's are around until the end of the season here not allot but their here. We have some great field shoots for them at the end of the season.
    Duane
    MAGGIES CADILLAC JACK (RIP)
    JAZ
    ACES BLACKWATER EXPRESS

    http://www.canvasworksincmn.com

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawninthesticks View Post
    I've never seen much of a retrieving challenge for a dog when 50 sky carp are landing 20 yds from them .JS
    My clients do not always "drop" them 20 yds away. If you have ever snow goose hunted they are very tough birds to decoy. They are hunted 9 months of the year. Many and I repeat many are "winged" and glide 300 plus yes away. Great blind work every hunt, also dropping 10 or more birds and your dog remains steady is a challenge for my high drive dogs out of Ranger. Glad you refer to them as "sky carp" then should never see Missouri plates in my state for spring season.

    Not here to knock anyone's passion be a pet, FT dog, or meat dogs. I don'y know any of you here on RTF I don't judge others. I have done and worked some trials and met great people, learned alot, and my dogs are all out of FC dogs.. It seems RTF attracks the complainers and know it alls.The trials I have worked and competed in the judges did great job, I did not win nor should I have, no complaints, train more.

    I know nothing, only a guide, taxidermist, and amateur dog trainer but liven the life I love.

  9. #129
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    My clients do not always "drop" them 20 yds away. If you have ever snow goose hunted they are very tough birds to decoy. They are hunted 9 months of the year. Many and I repeat many are "winged" and glide 300 plus yes away. Great blind work every hunt, also dropping 10 or more birds and your dog remains steady is a challenge for my high drive dogs out of Ranger. Glad you refer to them as "sky carp" then should never see Missouri plates in my state for spring season.

    Not here to knock anyone's passion be a pet, FT dog, or meat dogs. I don'y know any of you here on RTF I don't judge others. I have done and worked some trials and met great people, learned alot, and my dogs are all out of FC dogs.. It seems RTF attracks the complainers and know it alls.The trials I have worked and competed in the judges did great job, I did not win nor should I have, no complaints, train more.

    I know nothing, only a guide, taxidermist, and amateur dog trainer but liven the life I love.
    If that is the case then why in the world are you peeing on someones Cheerios?

    Jeff G
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  10. #130
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    Some of these folks that have posted are poor misguided souls who are basically full of themselves (FOS) . The derby judge in question that are being thrown under the bus I have known for many years and have run under him, top notch. Dan Sayles who finaly posted is one of the most respective Pros in his neck of the woods , along with many of the contestants that run. In fact Dan ran a dog in the derby and if no one noticed did not make the cut. Lastly those who post of their great hunting adventures and drawn inferences that us "high then mighty" field trial and hunt tests folks don't hunt much with their dogs. Please go to facebook do a search of Goose Geezers and see what working folks who train dogs and hunt do, I am proud to be a associate of that group. Lets end this BS with folks who refuse/decline to identify themselves and who we are being fed with various negativity from their own comments.
    Earl Dillow

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