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Thread: Judging bias

  1. #61
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    To make it more objective, we put the judges in an enclosed box, ship them to the trial. Just give them dogs #'s and don't let them see who's running the dog, nor know who the dog is. Keep them in their little box, until after they've turned in their placements. Then we see who wins .

    I don't like the "pay your Dues" mentality, this mentality is pretty much stating that the FT's are inherently unfair and inherently bias. If a dog can't show up run and win on skill, but needs to pay dues, to get placements, the dog shouldn't be placing. If a judges is gonna give a ribbon to someone they know-like, when dogs are tied, there's not enough separation, or because the handlers "paid their dues" they shouldn't be judging. If you have tie btw dogs, run another series to separate or skip a placement (nothing says you have to give out all placements, give Jams instead). No one should ever have to pay dues, if their dog does the work.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-22-2014 at 11:45 AM.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labs View Post
    What about instances when the rules are "black and white" but judges choose to ignore them for their set up? If you call them out on it at a test or a trial, you put a big red X on yourself...where is it that we can have some meaningful conversation about this? What recourse does a handler have, besides, "suck it up and try again"? Or do you simply not run under that judge again and get accused of judge shopping?
    If the judge is blatantly ignoring the rules and you feel it poses a risk to your dog, bring it up to the Field Trial Chairman through the marshal. There is a system. But not anarchy. Take your issue to the marshal and they can address it with the judges.. If you are worried about safety, scratch your dogs..

    You are right... You don't have to run under the same judges next time.

    If you are worried about being accused of "judge shopping", you don't have much to worry about IMO.
    Bill Davis

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigcat View Post
    If the FT game is ever to progress to engaging younger/amateur participants, the politics need to change. Otherwise it'll be a bunch of 60-80 year old trailers who feel because they showed up they need to place. Period. End of story.

    If a young boxer knocks out De La Hoya and loses because he's a no name from a small town, what does that do for the sport? Exactly the same thing it does for the FT COMMUNITY, discourages competing against the well known handlers/owners because there's no chance of placing. With all due respect, screw Susan's thought process, because it does nothing but facilitate the status quo.
    What irritates me as an amateur who is first and foremost a hunter with gun dogs who actually hunts my dogs, not simulated hunts, is people who send their dogs to top pros and then brag how good THEY are ay handling this same dog. Nothing, I repeat nothing wrong with sending a dog to a pro if you can afford it, but put credit where credit is due, with that PRO not the person writing the checks.

    I play the game some, never complain I love good dog work and often go to just watch good dogs go. Seems to me the people writing the checks are the complainers not the Pros who did the work. My ribbons come from impossible retrieves breaking ice by a young dog, priceless. No judges, no excuses, no ribbons, no dinner parties, dog trained by me, shotgun, decoys, and God.

  4. #64
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    Where is this thing at on Facebook anyways? Gotta be entertaining, and as a "Hunt Tester" running Field Trials, I haven't seen any bias.

  5. #65
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Drive View Post
    What irritates me as an amateur who is first and foremost a hunter with gun dogs who actually hunts my dogs, not simulated hunts, is people who send their dogs to top pros and then brag how good THEY are ay handling this same dog. Nothing, I repeat nothing wrong with sending a dog to a pro if you can afford it, but put credit where credit is due, with that PRO not the person writing the checks.
    Training and handling are two different things. Not all amateurs who use a pro to train their dogs are great handlers, but some are as good as anyone.

    I personally have a lot of respect for the good handlers out there. Even if a pro trains a dog, not everyone can take the dog off a pro's truck and win an open and do so consistently.

  6. #66
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    and we wonder why its getting harder and harder to get people to accept judging assignments...
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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  7. #67
    Senior Member DSemple's Avatar
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    thebigcat,

    Let it go for gosh sakes, it's only one weekend of a derby, geez. If you don't like the judges avoid running under them again in the future, it happens.

    And keep in mind, all your complaining probably won't affect the judging one way or the other, but don't think for a minute the bird throwers don't notice.


    Don
    Just for the record I have very fine dogs. Some of the best in the whole country....or at least on my own block anyhow.

  8. #68
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    To make it more objective, we put the judges in an enclosed box, ship them to the trial. Just give them dogs #'s and don't let them see who's running the dog, nor know who the dog is. Keep them in their little box, until after they've turned in their placements. Then we see who wins .

    I don't like the "pay your Dues" mentality, this mentality is pretty much stating that the FT's are inherently unfair and inherently have a bias. If a dog can't show up run and win on skill, but needs to pay dues, to get placements, the dog shouldn't be placing. If a judges is gonna give a ribbon to someone they know-like, when dogs are tied, or there not enough separation, they shouldn't be judging. If you have tie btw dogs, run another series to separate or skip a placement (nothing says you have to give out all placements, give Jams instead). No one should ever have to pay dues, if their dog is does the work.
    I don't like that mentality either, and heard that a lot when I started running trials. Fortunately it isn't the truth, there are quite a few new people running out here who broke in winning and placing over many old timers. These are natural students of the game, born hard working competitors who just happened to get a really good dog as their first dog, I'm envious but admiring. I've been in the game a while now and believe I have paid my dues and that for the most part judges are rooting for me and my dog, but that doesn't seem to play into their judging. If my dog doesn't do the work he doesn't place or JAM, simple as that.

  9. #69
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSemple View Post
    thebigcat,

    Let it go for gosh sakes, it's only one weekend of a derby, geez. If you don't like the judges avoid running under them again in the future, it happens.

    And keep in mind, all your complaining probably won't affect the judging one way or the other, but don't think for a minute the bird throwers don't notice.


    Don
    Spoken like a true old timer
    Bill Davis

  10. #70
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    and we wonder why its getting harder and harder to get people to accept judging assignments...
    LOL. I was just thinking how much fun it going to be this fall season since it seems now there are all these instances where we as judges can blatantly ignore the rules in our setups and not have to hear a thing about it.

    I am thinking three or four diversion birds on the land blind, maybe spread out along the way. Don't like it, you better keep your mouth shut and run it or you will go on the secret list where you will never have a shot at winning any trial anywhere.

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