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Thunder Equipment and AKC

5K views 22 replies 18 participants last post by  Zman1001 
#1 ·
Does anyone know if AKC allows thunder equipment shotgun simulators at HTs or FTs? Any opinions on this equipment pro/con vs popper gun?
 
#4 ·
The rules are not specific, except that I know you cant use them at a HT walk up.

The biggest pro for using them is that they will save the club an impressive amount of $$$. One could also argue that they are safer than poppers.

I also love the fact that it is easy for a gunner to retire with it so the gun stand is not out in a field.

They do require a little training on the timing but it isn't rocket surgery.
 
#5 ·
All of the ht and Ft's events held at the CR use the thunder sticks- maybe not in every stake but every event.
Thunder sticks are safer to use, cheaper and then when you cant get blanks and when you do they are more expensive than live loads it gets to be an easier answer

I could use some help with the rules, thinking it says a noise making device and not necessarily a firearm , for example beating on a pan with a spoon would work or maybe just the winger going off could work
Just me
Dk
 
#6 ·
Heard of rocket science and heard of brain surgery, but rocket surgery is a new one. Must have to be dang smart.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
 
#11 ·
Ran with them this weekend in WNY at their double master. No problems! As to them not being as loud as a popper gun ... Just depends upon how long the "gunner" charges them before firing.
 
#12 ·
Per Jerry Mann yesterday in our seminar, they are technically illegal to use in hunt test, however they are looking the other way on this. He said they are currently reviewing these and expect a final determination soon about the stance of AKC with these.

I personally prefer that our club go tonthem for the cost savings alone.
 
#15 ·
I can see both sides. I don’t like them.
Case in point. At a recent test the Thunder was pointed directly at me and my dog at a pretty close walk up. It was VERY loud. She thought I had shot at her, broke and it took a long time to even catch her. This dog was perfect in running for her Senior title and was not inexperienced at tests. She has been a basket case since. I can’t get her to heel close and at a test this weekend, first since that incident 4 months ago, she was so nervous at the line looking for the shooter, I picked her up. This is a very nice NFC bred girl and we are out of the games for a long time, maybe permanently.
Having said that, I do not blame the equipment, rather the operator. But with a popper gun, it would have been in the stand and pointed away from the walk up and maybe not have been an issue. With the hand held, it can be pointed in different directions and thus get different volumes of sound.
The cost savings is obvious but I know I am in the minority by saying to charge an extra
$5 if that is what it takes to stay with poppers. In the big picture of a trial or HT weekend, the entry fee is the least cost involved.
I was fortunate enough to meet the owner of Thunder this weekend and was informed that there is a way to lower the volume on them. If AKC allows their use in place of guns, the lower volume should be a requirement.
For the attention getting device, if that is what it is intended to be, bird techs should be properly instructed to shoot the gun, then throw the bird so the shot is actually an attention getter. So many time we see the bird thrown, then as it lands the shot go off, whether propane or powder. This bad timing negates the reason for having a gun in the field. Dogs that move with the handler don’t need the shot, but youngish or less experienced dogs need the shot to get them to look at the timing needs to be correct to serve the intended purpose. That is another discussion altogether.
 
#17 ·
I really like the shotgun simulators (thunder sticks). It just takes a little practice to get the rhythm of priming them and shooting. I am pretty sure that I was at a HT last winter where they had stands for the thunder stick so they were stationary thus the direction/impact of the sound was facing towards the mark just like a popper gun. The bird tech didn't have to hand hold it. I think they are cost effective and safer than the popper.
 
#21 ·
I ran a master test that the judges had gunners up wingers and just use the primer in them instead of a shot. Jerry Mann was standing in the gallery and they asked if ok. It worked great because the bird and shot were at the same time. Wingers make enough nose that you really do not need a popper gun. In all cases the shot is suppose to be at the top of the arch of the bird not before or after. Shooting it before the bird comes out is worse for the dogs if it echos. They turn to the sound and miss the bird. I have not seen the thunder guns but would love someone to post a picture.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Jerry Mann expressed to us personally at a recent judges seminar that the rulebook will be updated with the changes. The current rulebook does not make any reference to our shotgun simulators which may be where the vagueness is coming from. We are in communication with AKC and have not met any resistance from them as to their use. We are waiting for official communication from them and have offered to go to North Carolina to demo our product. We have not heard back as with any change it could be a while.
They are our shotgun simulators and can be found at our web site listed below, they are a patented product designed by us, made us in the USA. Many clubs have adopted their use throughout the country. Contact us with more questions we would love to talk about our products.
 
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