The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: Training Help

  1. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ramblinmaxx View Post
    I think possibly you could try to get him rolling to the back pile from a remote sit for a while. He does the left and right straight up backs to the back pile on land, ok, correct? Just think if you get him to learn the pile from remote, then when you brought him around to your side he might quit the bugging.
    Yes there hasnt been any issues at all on land.

  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jackh View Post
    Have you taught push/pull drill? A trainer friend suggested I do this when I was dealing with avoidance. I had no other tools to pull her head in or correct if she didn't when she looked away. Keep it slow and just use two bumpers for a while before adding the third. The push will probably be easier than the pull. I started with slightly exaggerated movements until she had the idea, then made the movements smaller.

    Keep the dog's attitude up with balance, but they need to know you are in charge and they don't decide when drills are over

    https://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj09.html
    No, but I will. I have no issues on land. Just on water

  3. #13
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,102

    Default

    What is the correction for bugging on land when doing FTP ?
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    Bugging or not looking out implies you are going too fast in your teaching. Slow down. When you first start to do swim by no collar pressure until the pile is established and the dog has the idea of what you are expecting. At this point you just want him to go! Toss the bumper out to get him to go into the water. And go from there. IMO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  5. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    What is the correction for bugging on land when doing FTP ?
    I tried "here" nick "here" while stepping forward but no luck. I can send him on his name when the bumper is thrown (to establish the pile) but as soon as my hand goes up and que "dead bird" he looks off. I have not had a bugging issue on land at all. Just on the water

  6. #16
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,031

    Default

    Have you done force to water?
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

  7. #17
    Senior Member jrrichar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Southern CA
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    Have you done force to water?
    Agreed..for my one cent worth. The dog knows where the pile is... it just doesn't want to do the work! Water force it so it knows to get it done regardless of its' feelings on the matter. The dog's attitude on the drill could be the problem, solved by adding the mandatory component into it.

    Eventually, a properly water forced dog will go on a back command into the water regardless whether there are any bumpers visible on the far shore. The expectation is I go when sent until stopped and then await directions.
    Janell Richardson

  8. #18
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,102

    Default

    Try this. Sometimes it works. Put a pile behind you at 25-30 yards (180 degrees from swimming pile). Send to land pile several times.When dog comes back from last send turn immediately and send to swimming pile. Don't say dead bird. Just say back. If you have little or no wind put the swimming pile at only about 15 yards
    Send quickly, don't give him time to think about it. Have bumper in your back pocket to toss.
    I have not done this very much. Dennis Voigt suggested this but for a slightly different application (stopping on whistle in water).
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  9. #19
    Senior Member Brad B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winnie, TX
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    remote sit, and cast to a pile you've identified. when a dog doesnt grasp something right away, look at how you can break it down and teach the task in smaller steps.

  10. #20
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,031

    Default

    "This is the first dog that I have trained. He is doing great with the land T, double T, and even some simple pattern blind. He lines great. When he here the cue "dead bird" he zones in on his picture and for the most part runs a straight line. My problem is starting him out on water. He is a very solid water marking dog. He attacks the water very well."

    First of all, not every young dog will transfer what he does well on land to water. That's why I asked, "Has the dog been forced to water."

    Secondly, it is necessary to recognize the difference and have a plan to avoid that issue. Being proactive requires know what lies ahead. Being aware is a skill often acquired by learning the hard way. After doing force to pile on land, the issue is often impedance (resistance to motion). This happens when there is a sudden change in the medium (land to water) for some dogs. This especially true if that dog is sat right at the water's edge to begin with. It becomes a mental block.

    I happen to prefer "force to water". It is necessary to interject that "force to water" is not always an "or else" proposition. "Negative reinforcement" by it's very name means the dog has to be in motion before being reinforced. Secondly, having success is best acquired when a retriever is exited and enjoying the work. Force to water can be fun (and it should be).

    From what I've read OP's dog loves water retrieves (marks).....but has no clue of what "back" toward water means except the handler is not happy. That can't be very exciting for either.
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 07-21-2014 at 10:50 PM.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •