Didn't want to continue to lead another thread down a rabbit hole, so decided to start a new one. I was surprised that quite a few people feel strongly that dogs should not be allowed in the gallery. I find it very interesting that at an event designed to display the training of dogs intended to hunt waterfowl, we wouldn't expect that both the dog at the line and the dog in the gallery would be properly trained to deal with that situation.
Shouldn't our dogs be trained to sit calmly on lead while other dogs are working? Shouldn't our dogs be trained to focus on the task at hand when other dogs are present?
Has basic obedience and "citizenship" become so subordinate to training for the actual marks and blinds that we expect the working dogs to be distracted or expect the dog in the gallery to be disruptive?
I submit that dogs that cannot perform in either situation are not ready to go waterfowl hunting. Am I wrong?
I think if its a master venue or a senior you are correct, but JH dogs are not required to honor and a live flyer visible from the gallery may fire up a young dog to the point where it becomes a distraction to the working dog. Isn't that one reason a JH can be lightly restrained at the line by a flat buckle collar? They are not expected or required to be steady.
No, Run your dogs and put them back on the truck or staked out at truck. Nobody really cares how cute your dog is or wants him eyeballing their sandwich in the gallery or cares to listen as you try to get him to sit for the 10th time.
Baby puppies visiting the gallery are fine for the most part.
I couldn't agree more and to add to that if you need to air ,stretch or anything else with your dog there is generally plenty of room without having to disrupt the working dog. Give common courtesy to the working dog and handler, you'll have time to show your dog off when its your turn at the mat.
As far as hunting goes ,if there are 50 other dogs around ....we've got problems.
I agree with all of these points. However, if a dog is in the gallery and cannot behave then the owner/handler needs to put the dog up. Others have stated that JH dogs are not expected to or required to be steady etc. Then that dog should be put up. Those lack of expectations for a young dog really are sad though. Just because they maybe JH dogs doesn't mean that they should be able to get away with being disobedient or unruly, regardless of where they may be.
Had a first at a hunt test yesterday. A baby was crying most of the time the dogs were doing their Junior water portion. Thankfully it didn't seem to bother too many of the dogs, but there was worry that it might.
That would bother me though-. Common courtesy would say that parent should have taken said screaming baby back to the parking area. Not likes its an airplane, where theres no escape....
As stated on the other thread I don't want dogs in the gallery. We don't even let people stand around with their dogs at a training session. When the dog has run then it can honour and then it's back to the truck. if you are there to watch and learn then the dog should be put away. Dogs don't learn by osmosis. Niether to do people for that matter.
I don't want to see your disinterested dog, interested in my lunch....I find its more of a certain "breed" and certain "type"....most of the high rollers are put back in their "cells" I want to relax for crying out loud
Same here, nothing wrong with stopping and chatting for a minute with dog on lead, before putting the dog up but I see no need to have dogs that are done working sitting in the gallery at a test or trial, OR at training run your dog , take care of your dog , put him/her away and take your turn throwing birds. I am definatly guilty of having a well behaved puppy in the gallery, and if a working dog left the line to see the well behaved puppy rather than picking up a bird I guess I wouldn't feel to bad about it.
Bullet says: "bah hum bug"....he enjoyed hanging in the gallery as pick up dog, he got to snooze in the shade, get some ear scratchings and take a nice nap in the cool shade and grass! Guess that's the plus of being the marshal.
Just finished my dog's JH this weekend. There were dogs in the gallery, my dog couldn't care less and would never have even thought of going to visit them. If he did, I would have considered him the problem, not the dogs in the gallery. He's there to do a job and birds were the only thing on his mind.
2 quick dog stories:
: judging a derby a few years ago- pup was in good shape going into the 4th
A pro running the dog - luanches on the go bird and the dog gets 50 or so yards out and stops ; rears up on hind legs and bee lines it back to the owner that had just shown up.
: all age stake - friends dog gets up off honor and eats the last half of the sandwich on the chair- that takes 5 seconds then the dog looks up and sees me and came at a run and i was 30/40 yards behind the line. Got some good natured laughs about that
2 quick dog stories:
: judging a derby a few years ago- pup was in good shape going into the 4th
A pro running the dog - luanches on the go bird and the dog gets 50 or so yards out and stops ; rears up on hind legs and bee lines it back to the owner that had just shown up.
: all age stake - friends dog gets up off honor and eats the last half of the sandwich on the chair- that takes 5 seconds
then the dog looks up and sees me and came at a run and i was 30/40 yards behind the line. Got some good natured laughs about that
Hey,
I would bet these dogs had been FF and CC just like my own and despite that level of training, still got distracted in a rare moment of rare circumstances. You are correct in that sometimes they just lose it and act more primally than as highly trained retrievers. But it seems that some on here just cannot believe that ANY dog trained in FF could possibly refuse a fetch / hold command? Give me a break, it happens and though such circumstances are rare, it still can happen to the best of them.
I guess it's assumed here that the dogs in the gallery are entered in the stake. How do we know that? Could be a local, bringing ol' Bingo over to watch the other dogs play. Who knows?
The argument is not whether a hunting retriever should be able to tune out other dogs. Rather, it's about whether or not all the dogs that are entered each have approximately the same test. If the marshal is concerned that a particular dog (or spectator for that matter) is having an impact on the test, then that should be their call.
That being the case, it would be awkward for the marshal to tell one dog owner to scram, while letting another hang in the gallery (because one dog was more under control than the other.) Ergo, probably should just keep dogs well back from the action.
I've only marshaled about 8 tests, but each time I found the overly uptight people to be much more of a drain on the day than any of the dogs in the gallery.
I love young dogs and I love old dogs.....I love all (most ;-) ) dogs......I just don't understand why someone thinks their dog should be a part of the gallery. If it is a case of socialization, there's usually plenty of dogs and space back at the trucks. The area up where the H/T or F/T are happening are for the spectators, judges, and the handlers who have trained hard and layed their money down in hopes of success.
Just my opinion.
Interesting. I have always figured because we're there ALL DAY might as well hang out with a dog some. I haven't been offended by other dogs in the gallery; in fact I got to meet and pet Lottie in the gallery at a trial, which I was tickled to do. I note for future reference that apparently a number of people are so offended.
People coming to training days thinking they are going to teach their dog manners or steadiness or something by having them out for an hour and constantly hissing (or shouting) "sit!" NO!" etc. are a distraction to all in my opinion. Those dogs need to be put away until it is their turn.
I've seen you hanging out with a Chessie or 2 a various HT's and have had the chance to ask you a few questions about them. You getting the chance to meet and pet Lottie is pretty cool. I wonder how many others, either on this site or just in general, have had the chance to meet great dogs or even ask questions about someones dogs or breeds of dogs because that person was hanging out in the gallery with their dog? Sure seems like a lot of wasted opportunity to meet and learn about dogs when everyone is being so stuffy about it all! I would think just a bit of common sense needs to be used in these situations. If you have an unruly dog put it up! If it's behaved then what is the problem.
The marshal has enough to do without adding the extra duty of gallery animal control.
Started & Junior unfortunately require pick up dogs. Hopefully not often. A quiet dog on a stake a respectful distance from the line can save 10 minutes every time a pick up dog is needed. That can save a fair amount of time over a water series. Might be a good idea to train for this distraction.
Seems to me that some people do stupid and inconsiderate things. Some people walk around behind the handler while he's running a blind. Some people get in boisterous conversations very close to the line while people are handling their dogs. Some people show up for training day and spend all day sitting around BSing rather than pitching in and doing their part. Some people don't show up to the holding blind when they are supposed to. Some people bring poorly trained dogs into the gallery that disturb other people or act in an unruly way that might distract the working dog.
Is the problem really dogs in the gallery or is the problem stupid and inconsiderate people? If the issue is the second one, you can't write enough rules to fix their stupidity. More restrictions only affect those who "get it".
In my opinion, if someone shows up to the gallery with a calm, well-trained dog on lead that is not bothering anyone, what's the problem? If someone shows up with a nuisance (dog, child, whatever), those in the gallery need to educate that person about acceptable etiquette. One man's opinion.
Hmm I oftentimes will have a young pup sitting in my lap, to lap up attention and socialize. They might watch the marks, but more importantly they learn to relax/be quite, & calmly prance around on leash at the event. I've never had anyone complain, most people just want to hold & pet. I've also never had a pup go wild on me at their first test, they've already been there and know what's expected. I sometimes have my older one out, usually after we've already had to rush for a pickup dog, I'm pretty sure she always on leash, but usually just passes out under my chair. Now I wouldn't have them out if they were wild or a distraction. Much like kids at an event if they are courteous and well behaved they can be out, if not they stay in the truck.
I've never seen dogs breakout of the gallery and disrupt a test, The only one's I have seen were wild dogs coming off the line who's owner lost hold of the leash on the way back to the Truck, or one who jumped out a side window which was accidentally left down.
If your dog is going to the gallery because there's another dog there, you've got another issue, it's a dog event, most would except other dogs to be there .
I’ve been racking my brain trying to remember a hunt test weekend when I haven’t seen a dog in the gallery, and I just can’t come up with one. As a judge, marshal and handler, I’ve had more trouble with the handler that stops near the gallery and in the path of oncoming dogs when leaving the line, discussing their dog’s performance with friends, than with a quiet, well behaved dog sitting near the gallery…… as long as the dog in the gallery is not near the line to the holding blinds.
Also, I have never seen a gallery closer to the line than the last holding blind, so it’s a given that there will be another dog within smelling distance. I don’t see how a quiet dog sitting in the gallery should be more of a distraction than the dogs waiting in the holding blinds to run their tests.
This discussion has brought to mind my old heart dog, Annie, who was losing her sight and hearing and weak in the rear when she earned her GDX that last year before we lost her suddenly at the age of 12 ½. GDX = Gallery Dog Excellent. I joked that she earned the “title” by sitting quietly and attentively at hunt tests run by all three organizations, when my husband and I spent long weekends judging and/or working tests, and our dogs had to sit in the truck for days on end. When I could take a break and sit for a little while I had no problems with allowing the old, well behaved dog a chance to watch the tests and hear the guns, as she seemed to relive her days of glory. There were a few times when she was asked to quickly be pick up dog, and it brought a tear to my eye to see how proud she was to be “running” tests again. It seemed to take years off of her for a few minutes.
I am new to this game so take my opinion for what it is worth. I cannot believe that this topic is getting so much attention. I have only ever run 9 hunt tests and I have worked 8 of them. This means that my dog has sat in his box all day while I was working except for when it is his turn to run. After he runs his last series I like to let him hang out for a bit. He will sit or lay down calmly and watch the other dogs run. Usually I sit off to the side by ourselves but sometimes we may be in the gallery. I have no problem with other dogs being in the gallery as long as they are calm and not causing a ruckus.
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