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Thread: Tonight at the City Council

  1. #11
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Hey Marvin I understand your giving them a good fight, but are you getting anything done?
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  2. #12
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    these are good ideas but I would go for the grand slam....How about taking the incident to conservative talk radio, they are about 24 hours ahead of whats on TV, if you can get a Laura Ingraham or a Mark Levin to give you ten minutes, this could gain some traction

    surely the local affiliate in your area has a conservative leaning local show to fill in around the big name shows
    Good idea... Marvin, John Carlson... Michael Medved?
    Bill Davis

  3. #13
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    Typically a Mayor has the power to control the goings on in a formal meeting of a city council. Whatever your objections as a councilman, the mayor has the right to control the meeting even to the point of calling law enforcement to restore order.

    Now, as to whether or not the council is/was proceeding with business as required/allowed by law, the fact pattern in your first message isn't clear. However, that's the role of the law and a suit ... to settle a dispute that otherwise can't be settled.

    So, I think the Mayor was probably within rights to control the meeting but you would be within your rights to file suit after the fact to set aside any action that took place. It's not a matter of free speech rights so far as I can see. To put it simply, could the Mayor cut off debate on any other subject? The answer is, of course because that's what the chair of a meeting does.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    Typically a Mayor has the power to control the goings on in a formal meeting of a city council. Whatever your objections as a councilman, the mayor has the right to control the meeting even to the point of calling law enforcement to restore order.

    Now, as to whether or not the council is/was proceeding with business as required/allowed by law, the fact pattern in your first message isn't clear. However, that's the role of the law and a suit ... to settle a dispute that otherwise can't be settled.

    So, I think the Mayor was probably within rights to control the meeting but you would be within your rights to file suit after the fact to set aside any action that took place. It's not a matter of free speech rights so far as I can see. To put it simply, could the Mayor cut off debate on any other subject? The answer is, of course because that's what the chair of a meeting does.
    I recognize the Mayor's right to conduct the meeting within the parameters of WA state law. There are no other parameters
    as the council majority, at the Mayor's behest, will not adopt any rules. You don't get to set the rules by the seat of your pants!
    Fortunately, I have a son & a DIL (different families) who are attorney's & one suggested to go to the AG's office. When I went
    on their site I found that they will give informal opinions, somewhat quickly, to elected officials. The other one, who understands
    how I explain things, thinks this is serious. We will see!

    I was not out of order, only voicing dissent that the Mayor disagrees with, that is not cause for removal. Had there been anyone
    at the meeting not drawing a salary from the city or indebted to the present regime, I would have allowed them to arrest me.

    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Good idea... Marvin, John Carlson... Michael Medved?
    After John Carlson's disastrous run for Gov, & the conditions leading up to that, he showed up at a Property Rights dinner where
    the AG, at the time, & & latest in a long line of fairly good R candidates to lose the Gov's race was the keynote speaker. In WA we
    have to take our R candidates with whatever good we can realize out of them as most are only different from the D's by small
    increments , but that's the way it is. I never saw anyone engage him in a conversation! He reminds me very much of the Hannity
    level talking heads on a national scale, not really a conservative!

    I've never listened to Medved & now that I no longer drive to Fort Louie my truck radio is only on when my bride wants to listen to music.



    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    Hey Marvin I understand your giving them a good fight, but are you getting anything done?
    Before my fellow 83 YO passed away of the big C he was privy to many private conversations, he used to laugh about the effort
    that was made not to turn me on . My presence makes a difference & I am able to force change to some degree. It's similar to
    being in a high end candy store, there are lots of opportunities & one only need tell the truth to make them look bad.
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Last meeting our city council conducted a charade of applicant interviews - tonight was my 1st opportunity to reply to the rest of the city council.



    At that point I was interrupted by the Mayor who I told I was not finished. She then called the Police Chief to confront me & he informed
    me if I did not relinquish the floor he would call an officer & remove me. 2 officers showed up shortly thereafter. I informed him that I was
    an elected official not subject to his control. One of the council members, though not recognized by the chair, made a motion to stop me from
    speaking further. Which passed.

    Were my free speech rights violated?
    Can an officer of the law answering to the executive branch remove an elected legislative official?
    We have NO Rules or Procedures for conducting meetings, I could not get a 2nd to establish
    Roberts Rules as a baseline!

    Trust me, this issue is not done - that's why you don't see me posting a lot - I'm trying to do what I was elected to do .
    An update - the Attorney General of WA only deals with statewide offices - so I went to our Municipal legal folks & this is his answer, excerpted:

    There is no law in this state allowing for the removal of an elected official from an official meeting.

    If the council had Rules & Procedures they can only regulate Time, Place & manner of speech but would have to be viewpoint neutral.

    All citizens have certain 1st amendment rights when speaking at a council meeting, & elected officials have additional protections arising
    from holding public office.

    I also asked if the rights of citizens were violated during this process. SCOTUS has recognized the importance of allowing elected representatives
    to express their viewpoints in part because they are elected by voters to do just that. In the case of Bond V. Floyd, 385 US 116 (1996) the court commented:

    Legislators have an obligation to take positions on controversial political questions so that their constituents can
    be fully informed by them, & be better able to assess their qualifications for office; also so that they may be
    represented in government debates by the person they have elected to represent them.


    Finding an attorney capable of doing this case justice is not easy - most of the people I know & trust don't need attorneys except for the normal stuff
    -
    So the search goes on & that's where we are today -

    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  6. #16
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Kudos to you Marvin
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  7. #17
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    marvin,
    1. are your city council meetings video recorded and/or televised? ours are on our local cable provider.
    2. were any of the applicants for the appointment in attendance? if the answer to 1 or 2 is yes, the mayor may have been concerned for the feelings of the candidates.
    3. since you have certainly been done wrong, can we as your supporters, all come to your town and go out looting one night?

    FREE MARVIN T-SHIRTS ON SALE NOW!!!!!
    i have a training partner, who may know some guys, who may be willing to start you a defense fund!
    john mccallie

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    marvin,
    1. are your city council meetings video recorded and/or televised? ours are on our local cable provider.
    2. were any of the applicants for the appointment in attendance? if the answer to 1 or 2 is yes, the mayor may have been concerned for the feelings of the candidates.
    3. since you have certainly been done wrong, can we as your supporters, all come to your town and go out looting one night?

    FREE MARVIN T-SHIRTS ON SALE NOW!!!!!
    i have a training partner, who may know some guys, who may be willing to start you a defense fund!
    1. It is in my list of requirements to settle - lawyer can take care of that - harder to change if court order
    2. The person appointed, who I defeated in the last election, was there. to add to what I posted last night;
    that is, the can not restrict critical or negative comments as such & only allow positive remarks about the
    conduct of city business.
    3. Actually, this issue has opened up new avenues to harass this overspending administration & I plan to
    explore all of them while doing my job as a councilperson.

    They now have a 5-2 majority on the council, I plan to exploit that to the fullest extent. How would you like to be
    in a position to have to listen to every statement I make being prefaced by: I know that you will vote as
    you have been conditioned to on this issue
    but I'd like to point out some of the facts
    before that happens.

    I was on a School Board where I was a 1 person majority - they knew I would nail them for stupid votes - & because
    of that I forced them into positions they would not have taken - the children benefitted from that situation - which
    is what it is all about -
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  9. #19
    Senior Member .44 magnum's Avatar
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    Next time they want to remove you... either have a friend video taping the meeting or the local media... then if you are removed or arrested you have video evidence with the ability to bring a law suit.

    In todays world that is all that works..
    I like one-shot kills where possible and prefer to do all my hunting before I shoot. ..... Elmer Keith



  10. #20
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Because I have no life, I tried looking up your city council rules. There does not seem to be anything more than a basic outline given by the state. In my reading this is apparently very common. In the outline it says that the mayor will preside over the meeting and therefore may well be with their rights to cut off debate. Presumably being able to restore order by use of the police would be acceptable. I think because of lack of rules your lawsuit will be doomed. if you use a system similar to Roberts rules for order, then debate can be cutoff with a supermajority vote. You said there was a vote, but not how many voted in favor.


    If there are not city council rules in place, I suggest you get about passing some. If there are you should learn them backwards and forwards as this will be your strength. I would also suggest you learn to be a little more subtle in how you attack your opponents. Wrap your insults into proposals to compel them to listen, make them feel stupid rather than just saying so. It will limit their ability to cut you off. As soon as you go into a personal attack, they can say your being disruptive and cut you off.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

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