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Thread: Marijuana legality

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    "Legalization" and "decriminalization" are 2 different things.

    Consider me naive.
    Legalization mean just that, it's a legal substance to possess and use as you choose. Decriminalization on the other hand, it is still illegal, but you don't get sent to prison for possessing up to a certain amount. Example, you can have up to an ounce without prosecution, over that amount and you get prosecuted. Hope that helps.
    James Durfee A.K.A Shinyhead

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McKenzie View Post
    I always find it interesting that most POTUS threads involve a bunch of folks jumping in with platitudes and political talking points, but whenever we are required to truly think about an issue and explain our own, personal opinion, not nearly as many of us want to get involved. Thanks to those who engaged the conversation, but I evidently didn't do a very good job of asking the questions. So I'll give my position on this.

    I believe that a crime requires a victim other than the perpetrator's self. In my opinion, we as individuals are free to do whatever we choose as long as we do not deprive another of thier rights. If I choose to smoke cigarettes, smoke weed, drink myself to death or commit suicide, that is my decision to make and is no business of my fellow citizens or the government (in our system, the same thing).
    Many people will jump in here and bring up all the "unseen victims" in a person's choice to use recreational drugs. They will point to the crime caused in this country and others by the illegal drug trade. They will tie gang-related violence to recreational marijuana. But it is the PROHIBITION of marijuana that has caused this violence. Criminals at many levels are involved in the trade of illegal drugs because their illegality makes them lucrative. It is no different than the illegal trade in alcohol during Prohibition. Gang violence was rampant when there was a booming black market for alcohol, but now it is nonexistent. It was the PROHIBITION that created the market that led to the violence. People aren't being murdered in Chicago and Tijuana because someone in the U.S. wants to smoke a joint. They are being murdered because our policies have given the criminals a gold mine that they are willing to protect at any cost.
    Then many will bring up the "gateway drug" position. Research indicates that most users of "hard drugs" smoked marijauna before they used harder drugs. The conclusion is that marijuana somehow leads someone to heroin or crack. The problem with this conclusion, in my opinion, is with methodology. I submit two questions here. 1. Since many of these hard drug users drank alcohol before they smoked marijuana, is alcohol really the "gateway drug"? And isn't it legal? 2. How many people smoke marijuana who never go on to use "hard drugs"? Those of us who have experience with alcohol, marijuana and harder drugs realize that legalizing marijuana will make no difference in the rate of usage of harder drugs. The psychological make-up of the individual has a much higher bearing on the likelyhood of drug use than legality.
    Next comes the "what about the children?" argument. Here's the truth. If your teenager wants to smoke pot, he's going to smoke pot. If he doesn't want to smoke pot, he won't. If he wants to drink alcohol, he's going to drink alcohol. If he doesn't, he won't. If you believe that the legal status of either will make a difference, you are choosing to ignore reality.
    So what has the prohibition of marijuana accomplished? It's burned hundreds of billions of dollars at the Federal, State and local levels, it's cost countless lives in drug-related violence, it has exacerbated our illegal immigration problem by causing people to flee the violence in their home countries and it's overcrowded our prison systems. What has it not accomplished? Preventing people from using marijuana. So is it successful and effective policy? I think not. Would legalization be a better policy? I don't see how it could be worse. At a minimum it would convert a net drain on our resources to a net gain.
    In my opinion, if we focus on and enforce crimes that have direct victims, we are much better off as a society. When we start criminalizing behaviors that have no direct victim other than the self, we head down a slippery slope. When in doubt, I default to liberty because it has been proven to be best route to human happiness and we must remain vigilant to preserve it against the natural tendency for humans to want to control the actions of others.
    Fewer people smoke cigarettes today than in years past. Not because the government made them illegal, but because people are better educated today about the health risks (partly due to government action). Fewer people drink and drive today because we more strongly punish a crime that has a potential victim (driving while intoxicated) rather than making alcohol illegal. These are effective policies. Prohibition has been PROVEN to be ineffective.
    My opinion - there is nothing victimless - but I am not one to decide what other's do of their own free will.

    Many years ago I sat with a couple of my sons on the 2nd level of the Kingdome watching a pre season NBA doubleheader -
    It was something a guy with 4 sons, working for a living, could afford. Some guys behind us were Sudsing up & were fairly
    well lubricated. Fortunately for them, they did not invade our space physically, but there is a good chance had they spilled
    beer on us they would have found themselves on the 1st level. They did make our enjoyment of the games less so.

    I really believe in freedom but I'll give this example - A Motorcycle rider doesn't want to wear a helmet & gets in a crash
    that leaves them unable to care for themselves - Whose responsibility is it to care for that individual if anyone's? Or do we
    cut them off as the Indians did with their elderly & let the coyotes finish the Job?

    I've smoked, quit cold turkey after my 1st heart attack - that was over 30 years ago, I can finally have a cup of coffee without
    feeling I need to light up. I just find it hypocritical on the part of our government that they still subsidize tobacco farmers .

    I've also drank more than a little, yet when one of my teenagers was pulled over for consumption the counsellor put him into
    an intervention program after asking the question - Does your Dad drink? & his answer "I have never seen him drink". I'm not
    going into further detail, but I believe it is the examples that are seen Up Close & Personal that set the tone .

    As for drugs, I don't even like to take prescription medication - will not take any of the codeine-morphine based - needless to say
    a couple of aspirin on occasion does the trick as they are taken so rarely. I asked our youngest recently about MJ - he said he never
    felt the need to stone himself though he remembers well coming home after having a little too much to drink the previous night, making
    a mess of the bathroom & being woke up @0630 to clean up his mess & go out to do his chores, &* when he complained being told that
    acting like a man carried certain responsibilities, a lesson he never forgot.

    The person standing outside the Tav smoking is still polluting they air for people who don't even drink - where does infringement stop?

    What I smile at is the person on this issue who promotes every issue like it is not interconnected & then says his party has all the answers
    after following a goofy old guy who did nothing but talk about the issues like he was JC .

    I don't think there is a good answer - Law Enforcement did a really poor job of doing their job & got rewarded with more, so why would
    they do anything different.

    It begins with doing what you are supposed to do - the Boss & I did what we had to do - our sons did what young men do, drink a little -
    I resent the do-gooders trying to interfere in our raising of our sons - but we got them through that & I'd like to believe it was through
    some of the efforts we made as parents.

    In a couple of weeks we go to the beach, a bi-annual event - our grandchildren look forward to that, nothing fancy, they entertain themselves -
    we would like to believe that helps them in their perilous journey through life - it's not a bad deal to have some that stand for something .
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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  3. #33
    Senior Member .44 magnum's Avatar
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    While it is only six months into legal sales of Mary Jane in Denver.... Guess what?? Crime rates are way down... the violent kind.

    In the first six months since Colorado legalized marijuana, homicides in Denver fell by more than 60 percent, according to government data.

    tells you that Alcohol makes for angry people vs Pot making a more happy user and be less violent. Now there will be exceptions to everything, but when a man or women decides to get drunk over some unhappy domestic situation, taking relief in some MJ rather then alcohol may keep him or her out of jail.

    Those who have feared a society run amok with drug use if Pot became illegal were only backing the Alcohol industry.
    I like one-shot kills where possible and prefer to do all my hunting before I shoot. ..... Elmer Keith



  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by .44 magnum View Post
    While it is only six months into legal sales of Mary Jane in Denver.... Guess what?? Crime rates are way down... the violent kind.

    In the first six months since Colorado legalized marijuana, homicides in Denver fell by more than 60 percent, according to government data.

    tells you that Alcohol makes for angry people vs Pot making a more happy user and be less violent. Now there will be exceptions to everything, but when a man or women decides to get drunk over some unhappy domestic situation, taking relief in some MJ rather then alcohol may keep him or her out of jail.

    Those who have feared a society run amok with drug use if Pot became illegal were only backing the Alcohol industry.
    A very, very interesting post. .................................................. ..........................
    charly

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    ~Will Rogers~

  5. #35
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    So, if a guy gets caught with 150#'s of pot from Mexico, you say let him walk?
    Stan b & Elvis

  6. #36
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    A very, very interesting post. .................................................. ..........................
    ... and borne out by experience. How much violence occurred at Woodstock? Or the thousands and thousands of mass gatherings since then where huge numbers of folks were "imbibing"?

    You can't put 100 guys in a cowboy bar in Oklahoma on any given Saturday night and have it stay that peaceful.

    JS
    Dont wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    So, if a guy gets caught with 150#'s of pot from Mexico, you say let him walk?
    I only explained the difference in legalization and decriminalization. Whatever the decrimanalized is, they walk. If someone had 150 lbs, that's not for personal use. That's for distribution.
    James Durfee A.K.A Shinyhead

  8. #38
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    The older I get the more I think we should legalize all of it. Yes a lot of people will drug themselves to death but the gene pool obviously needs some chlorine; the citizenry is getting entirely too dumb and too dependent. And the tax revenue generated will be more than enough to help those that want to get the monkey off their backs. Anyone who knows anything about addiction also knows that no treatment is going to help someone who does not want to be helped. Hell, anyone who's quit smoking cigarettes knows that.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    So, if a guy gets caught with 150#'s of pot from Mexico, you say let him walk?
    Hang on, are you asking a question about cannabis, or border security, or import/export / customs/ tariffs/ duty free?


    Cannabis should be legal. The border should be secure.

    If a guy has 150#s of anything he brought from Mexico that's undeclared- it's a problem. Don't blow smoke dude. Stick to the issues.




    *personally I can't imagine why someone would
    Grease mexican into the country if it were legal. If I were importing mexican- I would want it inspected by the USDA.
    Last edited by jhnnythndr; 07-28-2014 at 10:17 AM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyhead View Post
    ..... If someone had 150 lbs, that's not for personal use. That's for distribution.
    I just picked up 48 rolls of TP at the Costco,
    I must be selling poop
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