Could someone please explain to me why it is so important for a dog to rotate in a specific direction when casted back? I could see this for a hunt test or field trial dog for quick handling but for a hunting only dog it seems to just add another complication. Please someone shed some light on this for me.
How come it matters to you enough to ask? Has it cause you issues in the field? Just asking cause I don't see the point of your question. It's your dog.
Don I am a first time trainer that just made it to the beginning of Smartwork casting. I do not have any field experience handling. I am asking about it because it seems unnecessary for a hunting only dog, but I wanted an experienced opinion.
Even in a hunting situation, keeping a dog on as straight a line as possible is best. Letting a pup get out of the fairway and then doing overs almost always is a lot more work and a lot less productive. Handling straight to the scent cone almost always gets you the bird, letting the dog get out of the area and then trying to handle back, does not work as well.
Personally I think for your average meat dog, it's not going to matter as long as you can still guide your dog to the bird. However in competition, to be able to handle your dog with finese and precision may mean the difference of getting dropped or moving onto the next series. Consider that a left or right back may not be exactly straight back, it's more likely to be a couple degrees off, and that degree or two could make the difference.
It's not that difficult to teach... I don't know why you wouldn't just go ahead and teach the dog... It's not like pulling teeth. They learn it quite fast!
After the T the back casts are not expected to be straight back but a slight change in direction. If you want a back cast to the left and he spins to the right, the chances of getting a change of direction to the left are slim.
Dog would have to over rotate (more than 180 degrees). Whereas if he spun to the left he would rotate less than 180 degrees.
Your dog, do what you want. This concept was developed for a reason,to improve the quality of blinds by dogs whether for hunting or tests.
You could think of it this way. How often do you need to go straight back? If the dog is on line, there is no need to stop them and give them a straight back cast. If they are off line, there would be some angle back cast to get them going to the bird.
Teaching the two hands back is what leads into them learning L&R angle back casts.
imagine a long vertical bank right behind your dog's butt, water canal left, land right: if the dog spins/turns counter-clockwise it will be on the right side of that bank, if it spins/turns clockwise it will be in the left side of that bank and more than likely in the water
If you dropped a bird in the canal, it would be easier to give the dog a left hand back,and swim the channel to the bird than it would be to give a right hand back and have the dog run down the right hand bank and the square in to try and find the bird
imagine a long vertical bank right behind your dog's butt, water canal left, land right: if the dog spins/turns counter-clockwise it will be on the right side of that bank, if it spins/turns clockwise it will be in the left side of that bank and more than likely in the water
If you dropped a bird in the canal, it would be easier to give the dog a left hand back,and swim the channel to the bird than it would be to give a right hand back and have the dog run down the right hand bank and the square in to try and find the bird
If you give the dog the cast that puts him on the bank, in the photo shown, there's a good chance he'll try to RUN to the bird. In a shoreline like the one pictured, there's a decent chance that the dog will get onto solid ground - putting himself deep enough in the cover that he won't have clear view of the crippled bird as it moves.
Thus the dog has to try to gauge how far he's run, and when to cut in to the water. Even if the dog is accurate, he may pop out where he last saw the bird, which could be quite different from where the bird is at that time.
Giving a "meat dog only" the broader range of taught casts in his and your toolbox will increase your chances of good, clean handles and more efficiently retrieved game.
Some mud motors don't have reverse. That can be a real problem for a guy in a thick marsh.
You can think of left and right back capability like installing reverse on a mud motor.
Good luck and have fun...my suggestion is to take the extra time and teach left and right backs, even if you don't think you'll need them. One day you'll be glad you did.
You may find the ability to turn (cast) the dog away from a danger while hunting may keep your dog from injury. You down a duck on land send your dog for the retrieve. While the dog is on route you see a skunk coming towards the line of the dog. You need to correct the line stop the dog. If you spin the dog away from the skunk it is less likely the dog will see the skunk and not pursue. If you can spin the dog only in one direction you only have a 50% chance.
Even with a hunting dog, you want the dog to go right when you raise your right and and left when you raise your left. You don't want "left" to even cross the dog's mind when you give a right hand cast and vice versa. At best it is wasted motion, and as Wayne pointed out if they start out turning the wrong way the sheer rotation required at that point makes it unlikely that you will get anything close to the cast you gave.
Also, it would seem like you would be putting yourself in a tough spot with respect to corrections if you don't teach them the proper rotations. If it is not incorrect for the dog to turn left on a right cast, how long do you have to let them carry the cast they actually give you until it becomes incorrect and requires handling or a correction? I think your timing would be off at best, and it seems like it would be confusing to the dog at best - "You let me turn that way but then you handled/nicked me for going that way."
If you want the dog to handle at all, it just seems simpler to spend time on the front end at least getting them turning in the direction of the cast. What if you are hunting, handling your dog, and he stops at a spot where he needs a right cast to get to the bird but if he goes much left he is going to put himself in danger (ice, stump in water, buck brush, etc.)? Would the proper rotation not be useful then?
All good answers but you also have to consider how much fun it is to teach your dog this concept and then be able to brag about it to your Buds. "watch this, I have a great hunting dog"
Awesome that for the great explanations. Being new to training I have never heard an explanation to why the left/right rotations were needed. I did not realize dogs would not take straight back lines.
Here is another reason. You drop 2 birds out of a flock bird A is 30 yds out and bird B is straight behind 20 yds farther out as your dog swims to pick up bird A bird B wakes up and starts swimming away you whistle stop your dog and he stops just to the right and 10 feet from bird A. You want to handle past A to B you need a left back so the dog rotates away from A but if you only have a left or counter clockwise rotating do the first thing he sees as he turns around will be A and that will be the bird he will pick up not B that is swimming into the deep cattails whare it has a good possibly of getting away or at the very least it will take a lot of time to pick up all the while birds are flaring from your spread while you handle
Duane
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