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Thread: Conservative or Liberal ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Default Conservative or Liberal ?

    Using old labels like conservative or liberal to describe libertarians isn’t ideal. That’s because while we are fiscally conservative in the old sense of the word, the big government conservatives have now taken that word over. The same goes for liberals who’ve destroyed that term too.Conservative used to mean small government but few people use it that way anymore. People that want the government to prohibit drugs, wage wars, define marriage, run Social Security and Medicare, the Police State, and taking 40% of your income to do it call themselves conservatives. There’s nothing conservative about that. Ron Paul is a real conservative, Rick Santorum isn’t.Liberals are worse. Liberal used to also mean small government. But now people that are for the war on drugs, government healthcare, regulating food, the NSA, and taking 50% of your income call themselves liberals. There’s nothing liberal about that either.Libertarians are conservative and liberal, but neither of those things at the same time. It depends on whether you use the traditional meaning of those words or the new meaning. It’s best not to use either conservative or liberal to define us.The best way to define libertarian is that we are pro-freedom and pro-choice on all issues. We want the government to protect our natural rights, property rights, and provide for national defense. That’s about it. Everything else the government is doing it shouldn’t. End the Fed, the Ed, half the other federal departments, end the War on Drugs, bring the troops home, end the Police State and the Surveillance State, and stop spending trillions over budget every year. Eliminate the jncome tax and spend at 1992 levels and pay off the debt. That’s libertarian.

    Taken from A Libertarian Future website.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    in all honesty Franco IMHO thats what is wrong with your movement, you keep trying to re define people, and re label them....and tell people what they are and what they arent

    Lets call it like I see it, How in the world can you tell someone like Swamp, Huntingman, Marvin that they arent really conservative , just because they dont think the way you do ?

    the reason I picked those three is that I consider them very staunch conservatives (if i were to label them) I find myself siding with them on over 75% of the issues, and there are a few that we just dont see eye to eye on...

    I would say that the majority of the members on this board are fiscally conservative, we all like our money, we all care about how its spent, Where we differ is on the social issues and also how we get to our place of destination

    Why are you always trying to define someone by their political stance ?

    Its like I tell people when they introduce me to someone, dont introduce me by my profession, my political view or my religion....introduce me as a friend, an aquaintence, a fellow competitor or a stranger..I will define myself on my own by my actions, no need for someone else to do it
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    in all honesty Franco IMHO thats what is wrong with your movement, you keep trying to re define people, and re label them....and tell people what they are and what they arent

    Lets call it like I see it, How in the world can you tell someone like Swamp, Huntingman, Marvin that they arent really conservative , just because they dont think the way you do ?

    the reason I picked those three is that I consider them very staunch conservatives (if i were to label them) I find myself siding with them on over 75% of the issues, and there are a few that we just dont see eye to eye on...

    I would say that the majority of the members on this board are fiscally conservative, we all like our money, we all care about how its spent, Where we differ is on the social issues and also how we get to our place of destination

    Why are you always trying to define someone by their political stance ?

    Its like I tell people when they introduce me to someone, dont introduce me by my profession, my political view or my religion....introduce me as a friend, an aquaintence, a fellow competitor or a stranger..I will define myself on my own by my actions, no need for someone else to do it
    Don't forget the "Angry White Man" label he tosses around.

    The irony??
    This angry old white dude is the face of the party!!!

    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #4
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    in all honesty Franco IMHO thats what is wrong with your movement, you keep trying to re define people, and re label them....and tell people what they are and what they arent

    Lets call it like I see it, How in the world can you tell someone like Swamp, Huntingman, Marvin that they arent really conservative , just because they dont think the way you do ?

    the reason I picked those three is that I consider them very staunch conservatives (if i were to label them) I find myself siding with them on over 75% of the issues, and there are a few that we just dont see eye to eye on...

    I would say that the majority of the members on this board are fiscally conservative, we all like our money, we all care about how its spent, Where we differ is on the social issues and also how we get to our place of destination

    Why are you always trying to define someone by their political stance ?

    Its like I tell people when they introduce me to someone, dont introduce me by my profession, my political view or my religion....introduce me as a friend, an aquaintence, a fellow competitor or a stranger..I will define myself on my own by my actions, no need for someone else to do it
    Because it is true! The big government Conservatives have taken over and you are one of them.

    I've said since the beginning of POTUS that what constituted a Conservative when the label was first used to today has changed. It changed with Reagan. Reagan was a decent President that was in the right place for America at the right time. However, he loved BIG government growing it to a size never before and never again as big. Bigger than Obama's Federal Government. The attitude that Deficits don't matter began under Reagan. He granted Amnesty to millions. Reagan had a bunch of cute saying a stories but he NEVER backed them up with any action. He was a Goldwater protégé and I am sure Barry if he were still alive would have been very disappointed of Regan as a President!

    Does anyone in their right mind see that as Conservative? Face it, the article I posted is spot on!

    And RK, name one issue RP was wrong about, Fiscal or on Foreign Policy. I dare you, but I know you will do your usual dance!

    Had you read the article instead of getting all excited, you would have read that after 40 years, Libertarians can no longer call themselves Conservative because the meaning of Conservative has changed. Conservative use to mean smaller Federal government and more Freedom. Today, Conservative means bigger Federal Government and less Freedom!
    Last edited by Franco; 07-29-2014 at 05:56 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Because it is true! The big government Conservatives have taken over and you are one of them.

    I've said since the beginning of POTUS that what constituted a Conservative when the label was first used to today has changed. It changed with Reagan. Reagan was a decent President that was in the right place for America at the right time. However, he loved BIG government growing it to a size never before and never again as big. Bigger than Obama's Federal Government. The attitude that Deficits don't matter began under Reagan. He granted Amnesty to millions. Reagan had a bunch of cute saying a stories but he NEVER backed them up with any action. He was a Goldwater protégé and I am sure Barry if he were still alive would have been very disappointed of Regan as a President!

    Does anyone in their right mind see that as Conservative? Face it, the article I posted is spot on!

    And RK, name one issue RP was wrong about, Fiscal or on Foreign Policy. I dare you, but I know you will do your usual dance!
    Since he has done NOTHING in his career, I cant answer the question.
    Show me what hs has done tbat your so proud of.
    Stan b & Elvis

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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Since he has done NOTHING in his career, I cant answer the question.
    Show me what hs has done tbat your so proud of.

    I knew you would do your dance.

    You know what the man stood for on Fiscal matters and Foreign Policy.

    Using your reasoning, he was rejected by a Congress that has done a wonderful job. I glad you are happy with Congress, most are not, because that is exactly what you are saying.

    Get a clue, if Congress had listened to Ron Paul, we wouldn't be 18 trillion in Debt, 60 trillion in unsecured liabilities nor would we have taken on nation building in the Mideast and A'stan! Nor would we be pawns to the NSA, IRS and EPA.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-29-2014 at 05:48 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    in all honesty Franco IMHO thats what is wrong with your movement, you keep trying to re define people, and re label them....and tell people what they are and what they arent

    Lets call it like I see it, How in the world can you tell someone like Swamp, Huntingman, Marvin that they arent really conservative , just because they dont think the way you do ?

    the reason I picked those three is that I consider them very staunch conservatives (if i were to label them) I find myself siding with them on over 75% of the issues, and there are a few that we just dont see eye to eye on...

    I would say that the majority of the members on this board are fiscally conservative, we all like our money, we all care about how its spent, Where we differ is on the social issues and also how we get to our place of destination

    Why are you always trying to define someone by their political stance ?

    Its like I tell people when they introduce me to someone, dont introduce me by my profession, my political view or my religion....introduce me as a friend, an aquaintence, a fellow competitor or a stranger..I will define myself on my own by my actions, no need for someone else to do it
    I consider myself a fiscally Conservative Moderate Libertarian - How's that work ?

    I try to vote for people that meet that standard. When I was younger there were more
    choices to allow one to do that. Today I vote somewhat on demographics.

    We have too many female judges in WA. So they are held to a very high standard to get
    our vote. We have too many D's beholden to the public employee's unions. Endorsements
    are screened carefully. Did they show what they stood for during the campaign rather than
    presenting platitudes that leave them free rein? Do they have a background to handle the
    position? Welfare is Welfare, Corporate, Public or Individual!

    Conservative is relative to your life's experiences. Where I came from as a youth I would
    have been considered a moderate & like Goldwater still am .
    __________________________

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    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I consider myself a fiscally Conservative Moderate Libertarian - How's that work ?

    I try to vote for people that meet that standard. When I was younger there were more
    choices to allow one to do that. Today I vote somewhat on demographics.

    We have too many female judges in WA. So they are held to a very high standard to get
    our vote. We have too many D's beholden to the public employee's unions. Endorsements
    are screened carefully. Did they show what they stood for during the campaign rather than
    presenting platitudes that leave them free rein? Do they have a background to handle the
    position? Welfare is Welfare, Corporate, Public or Individual!

    Conservative is relative to your life's experiences. Where I came from as a youth I would
    have been considered a moderate & like Goldwater still am .
    Read post #10 on the Potus Heavyweights thread.

    Though we do disagree on some issues, I knew you were a Goldwater supporter and that you know the difference between what was and what is today in terms of
    what it means to be a Conservative.

    I think were we disagree is that you haven't acknowledged the resurgence of the Libertarian Party nor are you willing to give Ron Paul credit for the revival and inspiring a huge following of the under 30's.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-29-2014 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Read post #10 on the Potus Heavyweights thread.

    Though we do disagree on some issues, I knew you were a Goldwater supporter and that you know the difference between what was and what is today in terms of
    what it means to be a Conservative.

    I think were we disagree is that you haven't acknowledged the resurgence of the Libertarian Party nor are you willing to give Ron Paul credit for the revival and inspiring a huge following of the under 30's.
    In this state an R vote except in the local contests is also normally a wasted vote - There are Libertarians &
    there are Libertarian candidates - not all meet a minimum standard - can you imagine what the present POTUS's
    incompetence in office has done to any qualified person of color running for that position, especially if they are
    the same color as he & his wife?

    I support the Libertarian cause as I supported Ross Perot's United We Stand, I just want to be sure that when the
    time comes that person becomes a standard setter for the Party. i considered Goldwater that person, Ron Paul not
    so much. I need to get "Texas" from the library, RP reminds me of a hoodwinker aptly described in that book, also
    a TX congressman .

    I read Goldwater's "Conscience of a Conservative" before I became a supporter. What a sensible person !
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    In this state an R vote except in the local contests is also normally a wasted vote - There are Libertarians &
    there are Libertarian candidates - not all meet a minimum standard - can you imagine what the present POTUS's
    incompetence in office has done to any qualified person of color running for that position, especially if they are
    the same color as he & his wife?

    I support the Libertarian cause as I supported Ross Perot's United We Stand, I just want to be sure that when the
    time comes that person becomes a standard setter for the Party. i considered Goldwater that person, Ron Paul not
    so much. I need to get "Texas" from the library, RP reminds me of a hoodwinker aptly described in that book, also
    a TX congressman .

    I read Goldwater's "Conscience of a Conservative" before I became a supporter. What a sensible person !
    I will always believe that as Americans, we made our biggest mistake in electing LBJ over Goldwater. I'll take that belief to my grave and probably why I am such an ardent supporter of today's Libertarian Party.

    Our candidate(Bannon McMorris) against Mary Landrieu doesn't past the smell test for many of us in the LP. But, we do believe he is a better choice than Mary or Cassidy the Repub favorite. My guy running for the U S House does past the smell test and I just hope he can stand the physical challenge as he has a degenerative bone disease. Though his grandfather who was a major supporter of the Repubs financially (sold his Oilfield tech business to a company from Norway for over 2billion before he passed) is financing his campaign through his trust.

    Our slogan, "Less Government - More Freedom" says it all and though many Repubs are picking up on this concept, one has to wonder how committed they are to it and if they really understand why.

    Love or hate him, Ron Paul has been the only one over the last 20 years on the Hill to champion sane Fiscal Policy as well as a sane Foreign Policy. And, when I say, "I didn't leave the Repub Party, they left me", it is because the powers that be in the Repub Party are no different in most aspects as the Dems. Big government spenders, just different programs and they hate the idea of personal freedoms and personal responsibility.

    Whether we Libertarians reform the Repub Party from within or overtake them in the polls, the important thing is that we get back to what made this Country the greatest on earth! Capitalism over Corporatism, Free Trade over Socialist Government Regs, Property Rights, Gun Rights, Liberty and Free Will.

    In regards to your first sentence, voting one's conscience is never a wasted vote!
    Last edited by Franco; 07-29-2014 at 09:00 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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