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Thread: Dog works great on lead but not off of it

  1. #11
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    Tethering/ long lead gives you some control. Go back to doing off lead ob with him contained in a room in your house with you. This will help restablish the notion o control without a physical link between you (the lead.) he has too many option right now for how he can avoid obeying you- you need to get that notion out of his head.

    Then move into CC - while following a program for it. It sound like your previous experience has more to do with enforcing prior training than actual teaching and training new concepts. It can take a lot of repetition and proofing
    Last edited by jhnnythndr; 07-30-2014 at 04:08 PM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    A rule of thumb is to do ob in five different locations. Your yard, nearby fields, parks, neighbors yards, soccer fields. I think.he needs more exposure to distractions that different places will provide.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhnnythndr View Post
    Tethering/ long lead gives you some control. Go back to doing off lead ob with him contained in a room in your house with you. This will help restablish the notion o control without a physical link between you (the lead.) he has too many option right now for how he can avoid obeying you- you need to get that notion out of his head.

    Then move into CC - while following a program for it. It sound like your previous experience has more to do with enforcing prior training than actual teaching and training new concepts. It can take a lot of repetition and proofing
    Good suggestions here and in Wayne's comment. Dog needs to do obedience on off lead before CC! IMHO
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  4. #14
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngrani3 View Post
    He listens to every command I give (sit, stay, heel) until the lead comes off.
    It sounds to me like you have trained the dog to obey the lead.

    You are giving the commands with the lead.

    You need to train the dog to obey the commands that you give, and then consistently enforce and reinforce them with the lead. Then the dog will reliably obey the commands, even without the lead being present.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    It sounds to me like you have trained the dog to obey the lead.

    You are giving the commands with the lead.

    You need to train the dog to obey the commands that you give, and then consistently enforce and reinforce them with the lead. Then the dog will reliably obey the commands, even without the lead being present.
    Copter can you please expand on this thought? When I give the command while the lead is on he listens with no enforcement needed. When the lead is taken off its like he is a different dog. Most of the time the lead is not even in my hand, but dragging behind the dog.

  6. #16
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngrani3 View Post
    Copter can you please expand on this thought? When I give the command while the lead is on he listens with no enforcement needed.....
    If he is only "listening" with the lead on, you have only successfully conditioned the dog to respond to the lead.

    If the dog is conditioned to respond to the command(s) it doesn't matter whether or not it's attached to a lead.
    It's responses to the commands are reflexive and "automatic".
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  7. #17
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngrani3 View Post
    He listens to every command I give (sit, stay, heel) until the lead comes off.
    Not at all uncommon. He is a little old for that, but I have a four month old that is going through the same thing. He has been
    perfect up to now on lead and even when I leave the lead on him and walk away and do recalls. Took the leash completely off of him and it was a whole different game. I have seen this in almost ever dog I have trained and it is why once you get OB down on lead you much teach it off lead.
    Just go back to your basic OB and this time without a lead. If he is collar conditioned so much better but if not it is not a big deal, just do it like you would with a lead. It won't take long and he will be fine.
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  8. #18
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    Does he obey your off lead commands when he is up close to you? If so start there and gradually add distance in. Sounds like you are expecting to untether him and keep moving along at the same level as when you have a line to him. Everytime you change a factor you need to back up a bit. So do off leash obedience in the house, hallway, what ever it takes to keep him focused on you then gradually move back out to yard, then field. Sort of like when you add cover to land marks, you shorten up before you introduce cover, then work back out to distance as he learns the new concepts. Good luck. A fenced in tennis court can be a great spot for off leash work once you graduate from in the house.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Just to expand a little on copterdoc and doluvah's posts .... what you have done so far is to compel the dog to obey you through the medium of the lead. He's only doing it because he hasn't got an alternative, so when you give him an alternative the game changes. In his mind the lead is what makes him comply and once it's removed "Whoopee schools out". He sees the lead as more important than you are.

    You need to get him to recognise that he has to conform whether or not the lead is present, and that you are the leader in the relationship and he's the follower. You do that by having him up close to you in a non distracting environment, and make it worth his while to do what he's told. Teach the basics of OB (heel, sit, recall) in baby steps, using whatever reward system you think appropriate, and then reinforce.

    Without seeing you both together it's difficult to be more specific but I'd look on him as a prime case for clicker teaching; it's not just an OB problem he has but an attitudinal one, and clicker is good for addressing that.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member jackh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    Just to expand a little on copterdoc and doluvah's posts .... what you have done so far is to compel the dog to obey you through the medium of the lead. He's only doing it because he hasn't got an alternative, so when you give him an alternative the game changes. In his mind the lead is what makes him comply and once it's removed "Whoopee schools out". He sees the lead as more important than you are.

    You need to get him to recognise that he has to conform whether or not the lead is present, and that you are the leader in the relationship and he's the follower.

    Eug
    I was thinking something along these lines too. You can teach him stuff all you want but as long as he doesn't see you as leader, he probably won't listen when given a opportunity/choice not to. Nobody here has seen yall together, so I can't say for sure that's what it is, but it may be playing a part. Make sure that pup sees you as leader and him as follower. Project a calm, confident and assertive attitude for him to feed off of.

    I experienced some of this early on with my last dog, so like others said, this is probably not uncommon.

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