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Thread: cheating on the return

  1. #21
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    I hope I never see a HT or FT test where only the dog with the crispest swim by skills wins or passes. That would be a sad day, indeed.-Paul
    Explain the relevance as it pertains to the topic presented by the OP, his question was about TRAINING not competition.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Explain the relevance as it pertains to the topic presented by the OP, his question was about TRAINING not competition.
    Just that I believe you pick your fights carefully, especially with dogs doing advanced work. Too many times I have seen people "tighten up" a dog on some skill only for the dog to loosen up somewhere else. Sometimes in an area that is a real problem to work through.

    What's being discussed in this thread is a minor fault, at most. Many judges don't even note it.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  3. #23
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAH View Post
    First post brand new to the forum I have a 4 year BLF master hunter and recently she is developing a nasty habit and I cant seem to correct it

    She takes a great line on the way out and no issues entering the water on water marks and takes an initially great line on the return. The problem comes when she is about 2/3 to 3/4's of the way back she turns to shore and puts it in high gear. I try and whistle stop her and she blows it off and if possible puts it in an even higher gear towards shore. I have also tried waiting until she gets to the edge of the shore and whistle stop her (which she will do) and cast her back into the water to try and get her back on the correct line. She fights the cast but will hesitantly go on the back cast and then when given the over cast will take it but only for a yards before she points again to shore and puts it in high gear. Ideas please
    The short and skinny to this is....there are too many variables involved to just answer on an internet to give advice. Some general knowledge yes, but we don't know anything about this dog and I believe you will do an injustice on what the team has accomplish on this dog.
    Go seek the pro that train her and have him or her help you correct this. I really beleive this would be fair for all parties involved especially for you. Dog doesn't care.
    My two pennies worth.

  4. #24
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    If the dog does not cheat on the way out, how important is it for the dog to return on the same exact line ?

  5. #25
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    Every year no matter the age have gone back to the swimby. Not to pile work on each end or across, toss a bumper in what would be your swimby pond, give THE OVER Cast for the "discipline casting" with bumper in mouth to the end and out depending on how the dog was originally taught . Do this in a couple of locations. Have done it with dogs that are upwards to 9 or 10 years old. In our group dogs range from 18 months to 9 years old and all are put through discipline casting. If your not sure make a phone call to the pro that did it.
    Earl Dillow

  6. #26
    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
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    DAH, since you are new here you may not know that you've had responses from some accomplished trainers and handlers of varying degrees of which I am probably one of the least. Having said that, I think that you are not asking too much of your dog to come back directly and more importantly IMO to take your casts with bumper/bird in mouth on the return. I don't understand why a dog on this level would not perform discipline casting on either land or water.

    I like the idea that someone proposed - take the dog back to the pro who did the training and watch/participate as the pro puts her back through swim-by. Then every once in a while make your dog do a "swim by" on a return with a bumper/duck in mouth during training just to remind her that you can make her do that.

    Someone else said not to put that dog in that position and I agree UNTIL you get a chance to go get it sorted out. In other words, until you have the ability to enforce it stop putting her in positions to disobey you in this manner as that only reinforces that she CAN do that.

    BTW, DAH is a great handle and welcome to the RTF!
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  7. #27
    Senior Member kimsmith's Avatar
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    There's are great drill I learned from Chris Akin, throw straight in marks to middle of pond so the dog has to stay wet going and returning. Then throw down the shore, send dog and don't do anything no matter if the dog runs the shore to the mark. On the return use low level nicks all the way back to you as soon as the dog hits shore. The dog makes the decision not you to stay in the water. But on a side note some ask why not let them cheat on the way back, because you are letting the dog cheat half the time. Also if its just on the return and you are not seeing it creep in on marks I wouldn't worry about it.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Every year no matter the age have gone back to the swimby. Not to pile work on each end or across, toss a bumper in what would be your swimby pond, give THE OVER Cast for the "discipline casting" with bumper in mouth to the end and out depending on how the dog was originally taught . Do this in a couple of locations. Have done it with dogs that are upwards to 9 or 10 years old. In our group dogs range from 18 months to 9 years old and all are put through discipline casting. If your not sure make a phone call to the pro that did it.
    Another good way to refresh these skills is to use the Swim-by Tune Up

  9. #29
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Just that I believe you pick your fights carefully, especially with dogs doing advanced work. Too many times I have seen people "tighten up" a dog on some skill only for the dog to loosen up somewhere else. Sometimes in an area that is a real problem to work through.

    What's being discussed in this thread is a minor fault, at most. Many judges don't even note it.-Paul
    ^^^this. If her line remains honest on the way out, why are you worrying about the return? I would only start worrying about it if it starts cheating on the way out....
    The dog will always prove you wrong

  10. #30
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labs View Post
    ^^^this. If her line remains honest on the way out, why are you worrying about the return? I would only start worrying about it if it starts cheating on the way out....
    And that is likely the progression of things and then you have a problem which probably could have been avoided.

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