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Thread: Having trouble with 3 handed casting

  1. #1
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    Default Having trouble with 3 handed casting

    I am following Duck Dog Basics and I am now to Duck Dog Basics II. I have started trying to teach the 3 handed casting drill covered in the video. The first day my dog did okay on the back command and seemed to do better on right and left overs. I have noticed that he still seems confused on "back" and sometimes just sits there looking at me like he doesn't know what to do. Sometimes though he will go and make the retrieve. I am not convinced he knows what he is supposed to do so I have not corrected for a "no go". I am 3 or 4 days in and not sure where to go from here or what to do to help clarify it for him. I have tried to think about how to simplify and I am not sure how. All I can come up with is keeping the repetitions low each session and keeping it short until he gets more confidence. What am I missing? Do you have any tips or suggestions I could try to get back on the right track?

    Edit to add: The drill I am working on has the dog in a (close) remote sit with me throwing a bumper over his right or left shoulder just a few feet and giving the corresponding right or left back command.

    Thanks in advance,
    AA
    Last edited by American Ace; 07-31-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: clarification

  2. #2
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    The ingredients for your success are low grass and one (1) giant white bumper. I like to use a check cord as well but you are going to get mixed opinions on it. Sit dog in front. Throw bumper. Give cast. No piles just one highly visible bumper. If the dog still no goes, stop and go back to FTP. Once the dog has had multiple sessions of doing this well then you can progress to mini T with piles but keep the bumper handy and be slow to correct and quick to simplify by throwing one to the pile. Many sessions with small bites at the apple are what it takes to instill sound fundamentals.

  3. #3
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    A A

    How have your dogs in the past done with this?
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

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    Tony, thanks for the reply. I have not done FTP as he does it after the basic 3 handed casting on the video. I have wondered if I might not be ahead to go ahead and do FTP and see if that helps when I come back to 3 handed casting drills. As far as grass and bumpers, so far so good. I am working in my large front yard with very visible white bumpers at short ranges to be sure that he can see the bumper. You mentioned on the Mini-T throwing a bumper to the pile to simplify. Would this be a possible solution to my current situation as well or would I just be basically throwing short marks? The video I am following has me working with the dog at a short remote sit, facing me and throwing bumpers over his head, behind him and then giving him the "back" cast and command.

    Thanks again for your response,

    AA

  5. #5
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with DD Basics. Larry goes from walking fetch to simple casting and then to FTP. So here is what I do (Lardy):
    Sit dog immediately in front of you. Just a step or so.
    If doing right back, step to right a step or so.
    Have dog on a check cord
    Toss bumper over dogs shoulder just a little ways, maybe three steps
    Say "fetch" as soon as bumper hits ground.
    The first time hold bumper crosswalks in your hand while arm is in up in air.
    Next time say fetch back. Again arm up in air
    Next few times same, then just back
    Slowly increased distance.
    Hard to describe, I will post a video
    Not the one I was looking for but you get an idea of the distances position. I will keep looking.
    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ate%29+casting

    Still not the one I was looking for but you can see some of the gyrations I went through to get him to ignore the right bumper and take the back casts, which are things you might have to do.
    http://s868.photobucket.com/user/way...14288469479322

    As Tony said mowed grass and single white bumper.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 07-31-2014 at 08:43 PM.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

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    GDGNYC,

    This is the first dog I have ever trained so I am in completely new territory here. : )

    Thanks,

    AA

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    Wayne, this program follows the same progression. Let me see if I understand what you are saying, are you saying that you start the commands off with the familiar "fetch" command and gradually layer in "back" in place of "fetch"? Are you saying that you hold your arm in the correct casting position as well while you do that so the dog makes the correlation with the command. If I am understanding you, you are saying that you hold a different bumper crossways in your hand the first time to get his eyes on you is that correct? If I am not clear on what you are saying please let me know. The part about layering in the "back" command makes sense so I hope I am correct there and not just crazy. : )

    Thanks,

    AA

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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Get rid of the over piles for now.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

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    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Ace View Post
    GDGNYC,

    This is the first dog I have ever trained so I am in completely new territory here. : )

    Thanks,

    AA
    That is why I asked. You will decrease your own frustration by training at half the speed that you think you should do. You will have less of a chance of making a mistake that will need to be undone later.Most DVDs and books give me the impression that progress should go faster. It could just be my own interpretation.

    I created a problem with my own dog on three handed casting. I took this to mean that the dog was confused. Why else wouldn't a retrieving fool not want to go for a bumper? (IMHO) There is no harm in taking your time to build confidence by making a lot of successful drills. You will have other dogs so what you learn now will be useful for the future. I solved the problem that I had but I had to be very patient with her. It paid off.

    Spend more time on your backs, done on very short grass as has been stated, lots of praise, not too many at one session as a dog may get bored with this. In fact you might try just spending more time on only backs, no over piles. You won't get any confusion there. Then when doing overs you might do what I call two bumper baseball. No second base, just 1st and 3rd. Nothing to draw the dog to do a back. If the dog goes back, no bumper=no reward. Kind of a self correction. You are teaching and the dog will get better with time.

    Just be patient. It's good that you recognized the confusion. Try to figure out what you did and avoid doing it again with the next dog.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by gdgnyc; 07-31-2014 at 08:48 PM.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Yes you are correct. Not a different bumper crossways but the one you toss the first time, toss while arm is in the air. Awkward I know. I posted a couple of vides to my original post. They were not the first day ones that I was looking for but should give you some suggestions. If he doesn't go, pinch ear (if that's what u used for ff). But if you throw it real close off to the side a bit and say fetch he will go, if ff went good.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 07-31-2014 at 08:50 PM.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

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