The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 88

Thread: Judging question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Pupknuckle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    268

    Default Judging question

    Master Hunt Test. Honor series, Honor dog breaks then working dog breaks. Are both out?
    Home of CH Shallcross Lake's Chaamp MH RA WDQ CGC
    Shallcross Lake's Little Rascal MH
    Shallcross Lake's Delaware Diva JH
    Four Star Molly MH
    Bob Louie

  2. #2
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    3,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pupknuckle View Post
    Master Hunt Test. Honor series, Honor dog breaks then working dog breaks. Are both out?
    Honor dog is out. Working dog should be given a re-run due to interference by the honor dog.

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you canít take it backÖ"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  3. #3
    Senior Member bakbay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Creedmoor, TX
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miriam Wade View Post
    Honor dog is out. Working dog should be given a re-run due to interference by the honor dog.

    M
    Sorry, can't agree with that, assuming this is an AKC master and also assuming the judge has not released the running dog to retrieve. Both dogs are out. From page 30 of the Retriever HT regulations "(5) A Master Hunting dog must be steady and must deliver to hand. Failure to do so must be graded “0” in Trainability." NO leeway for steadiness requirement.

    The section on page 22 relating to interference states: "Section 11. Interference. In a Senior or Master Hunting Test, when a dog is ordered by the Judge to retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for the same fall and interferes with the working dog to the extent of causing it in any way to make a faulty performance, the dog interfered with shall be considered as not having been tested and given another evaluation." The red, italic font is mine to emphasize that interference occurs only if the running dog has been released by the judge to retrieve.
    Bruce Bachert Bakbay Labradors
    beb@bakbay.com www.bakbay.com
    Creedmoor, TX (near Austin)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Pupknuckle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bakbay View Post
    Sorry, can't agree with that, assuming this is an AKC master and also assuming the judge has not released the running dog to retrieve. Both dogs are out. From page 30 of the Retriever HT regulations "(5) A Master Hunting dog must be steady and must deliver to hand. Failure to do so must be graded “0” in Trainability." NO leeway for steadiness requirement.

    The section on page 22 relating to interference states: "Section 11. Interference. In a Senior or Master Hunting Test, when a dog is ordered by the Judge to retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for the same fall and interferes with the working dog to the extent of causing it in any way to make a faulty performance, the dog interfered with shall be considered as not having been tested and given another evaluation." The red, italic font is mine to emphasize that interference occurs only if the running dog has been released by the judge to retrieve.
    Thanks, that's what I thought. Just want to be prepared should the situation ever arise.
    Home of CH Shallcross Lake's Chaamp MH RA WDQ CGC
    Shallcross Lake's Little Rascal MH
    Shallcross Lake's Delaware Diva JH
    Four Star Molly MH
    Bob Louie

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    owings mills, md
    Posts
    1,502

    Default

    Why is number always required?
    Can not interference occur if the honor creeps in front of the working dog blocking their view or excessive barking causing the working dog to turn their head?
    Interference is a call for the judges to make based on a dog's reaction, as explained in very next section of page 22:
    "Section 12. Unfair Tests.
    If there is an occurrence which makes for a relatively unfair test of a dog’s abilities, the Judges shall exercise their discretion in determining
    how to score the abilities of the dog in that series. In doing so, the Judges may decide that it is necessary or unnecessary to re-run the dog....."

    When did the working dog go? Was the honor dog handler yelling NO, HERE, blowing a whistle, etc??
    Lots of variables. That is why it is called judging not score keeping!

    I would tend to give the working dog the benefit of any doubt.

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 08-04-2014 at 07:17 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Boston, GA
    Posts
    2,724

    Default

    I have seen it done both ways. As Bruce said and the other is giving running dog a rerun if they get it under control. I agree with Bruce and believe rule book justifies his call me.
    Tom Dorroh

  7. #7
    Senior Member bakbay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Creedmoor, TX
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Carrion View Post
    Why is number always required?
    Can not interference occur if the honor creeps in front of the working dog blocking their view or excessive barking causing the working dog to turn their head?
    Interference is a call for the judges to make based on a dog's reaction, as explained in very next section of page 22:
    "Section 12. Unfair Tests.
    If there is an occurrence which makes for a relatively unfair test of a dog’s abilities, the Judges shall exercise their discretion in determining
    how to score the abilities of the dog in that series. In doing so, the Judges may decide that it is necessary or unnecessary to re-run the dog....."

    When did the working dog go? Was the honor dog handler yelling NO, HERE, blowing a whistle, etc??
    Lots of variables. That is why it is called judging not score keeping!

    I would tend to give the working dog the benefit of any doubt.

    Tim
    There are certain absolutes...can't eat birds, gotta be steady. The question was NOT whether the running dog's ability to perform the test was impacted but whether the running dog is allowed to break. If the honoring dog was jumping around, interfering with the running dog's ability to accurately mark, the judges should stop the test and excuse the honoring dog. If the running dog broke before being released by a judge to retrieve, they are out.
    Bruce Bachert Bakbay Labradors
    beb@bakbay.com www.bakbay.com
    Creedmoor, TX (near Austin)

  8. #8
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Falcon, CO
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    I guess I'm a push over, benefit of doubt goes to working dog assuming the dog was reasonably under control up to the point. If working dog was creeping and not at heel, then I might be a hard ass and drop him, but in general I try and give the dog the benefit of doubt.
    "You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.

    Proudly Owned By:
    MHR HR Flash Of Mischief SH CD CGC - Flash (10/15/98 - 10/8/12)
    Lightning Fast Quack Attacker*** - Bullet
    Gotta Heart Of A Warrior - Ranger (12/26/07 - 8/10/2010)
    SML's Gettin' Sexy With It*** - Tango
    FOM's Raising a Ruckus in the Rockies - Riot

  9. #9
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    6,874

    Default

    In field trials (I have no knowledge of Hunt tests) steadiness is absolute and there are no exceptions. The burden for steadiness is applied equally to both the working dog and the honoring dog, there are no exceptions. Interference is a different issue! If a dog breaks it breaks interference does not apply.

  10. #10
    Senior Member djansma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    427

    Default

    in my book if the honor dog breaks that is definitely interference with the working dog and when either dog breaks that test is over
    see the working dog in 3 dogs that's my opinion but have been at the line when the honor dog creeped and my dog creeped and than they both broke and we both were dropped

    David Jansma
    The time you spend on earth with your dog is precious; enjoy it to your fullest

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •