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Thread: breaking and switching on the diversion bird?

  1. #11
    Member Cyclone's Avatar
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    Break it down. The dog had a bird in his mouth and spit it out. That is a violation of "Hold". Start there.

    I suggest you sit him, put a bumper in his mouth, and then walk 20 yards away. Whistle him to you, and as he approaches toss another bumper (not at his face, but off to the side). If he spits it the first bumper, reinforce "hold" of the first bumper. Don't worry if he watches the diversion bumper or even veers towards it, as long as he doesn't spit out the first bumper. Give lots of praise when he does it correctly. Also let him pick up the diversion bumper only when he does it correctly. It won't take long for him to realize he only gets the second bumper when correctly delivers the first bumper.
    HRCH Royer's Mighty Riverman Murphy (Murphy)
    HRCH Dakota's Element of Surprise (Ellie)

  2. #12
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    It would be hard for me to imagine a worse way to correct switching to a diversion bird on the return from a blind or mark. Are you people serious?
    Finally worked after about 1000 other things were attempted for this particularly stubborn and willful dog who had the misfortune to end up with a rookie who didn't know any better.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  3. #13
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    I think it is a combination of obedience and hold. I think cyclone has a good answer.

  4. #14
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    the thing i cant understand is that i have been throwing diversions most of his life. he has never switched.
    the only thing that was different is that the bird thrown away from the dog. i throw them just off his return path in training.
    my next problem is that if i use too much force on him he will shut down. for a week or two.

  5. #15
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    thanks everyone. we are going to get back to the field tomorrow and see what we can work out.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    NEVER turn your back on your dog! Wait until he is sitting at your side, THEN place the gun in the stand! -Paul
    If I am reading this correct, place the gun in the stand before you send him then you can give your undivided attention to the dog.IMO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA

    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI

    Metras's Hashtag Mickey

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by griff68w View Post
    the thing i cant understand is that i have been throwing diversions most of his life. he has never switched.
    the only thing that was different is that the bird thrown away from the dog. i throw them just off his return path in training.
    my next problem is that if i use too much force on him he will shut down. for a week or two.
    Dogs do funny things at tests. Don't over think it, just train for it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    Break it down. The dog had a bird in his mouth and spit it out. That is a violation of "Hold". Start there.

    I suggest you sit him, put a bumper in his mouth, and then walk 20 yards away. Whistle him to you, and as he approaches toss another bumper (not at his face, but off to the side). If he spits it the first bumper, reinforce "hold" of the first bumper. Don't worry if he watches the diversion bumper or even veers towards it, as long as he doesn't spit out the first bumper. Give lots of praise when he does it correctly. Also let him pick up the diversion bumper only when he does it correctly. It won't take long for him to realize he only gets the second bumper when correctly delivers the first bumper.
    Is it a violation of "hold"?? Or a violation of "here"?? How would you correct a dog who spits a bird or bumper upon immediate exit from the water to shake??
    Joe Overby
    Candler Creek Retrievers
    www.candlercreekretrievers.com
    GRHRCH UH "Hooch" MH (HRC 1500 pt. club)
    HRCH "Tater" MH

  9. #19
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I wonder how many amateurs that train their own dog, spend enough time getting FF solid? (ear pinch,stick fetch, walking fetch.) I wonder also how many spend enough time in the yard with T and TT.
    There are steps and standards with pile work, that you demand a dog to pick up a bumper, and NOT SHOP THE PILE!,,you teach an immediate "HERE"! You teach and demand a solid sit to the whistle on the way to the pile. ...There is also a step near the end where you demand the dog show disciplined casting, carrying a bumper he picked up at one pile, and you cast him to others,and doesnt drop! or SWITCH!!

    A LOT of this stuff,if taught to a high standard, will give the tools to stop a switch before it starts..
    A simple single whistle sit, as the diversion bird is thrown, would come to mind, followed by a here whistle,,all taught earlier,,,but was enough time spent to make the lessons solid??

    That "sit" command, is so,so, important..
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #20
    Member Cyclone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    Is it a violation of "hold"?? Or a violation of "here"?? How would you correct a dog who spits a bird or bumper upon immediate exit from the water to shake??
    It's a violation of both, but my inclination would be to fix "hold" first. To your second question, I would hit the sit whistle the instant he spit the bird/bumper, then walk up to him and put it in his mouth, reinforce "hold", then walk back several yards and whistle him to me. (Note that, like Gooser said, his whistle sit has to be 100% or none of this is works.) Next time I would meet him at water's edge, and say "hold" as I walk backwards from the water a few yards. Repeat often, gradually extending the distance from handler to water. Once this is rock solid, introduce a diversion on water.
    HRCH Royer's Mighty Riverman Murphy (Murphy)
    HRCH Dakota's Element of Surprise (Ellie)

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