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Thread: Isis

  1. #21
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Until Pearl Harbor ... about 10-15 years later. That's a speck in the history of Islam, and its directive to conquer the world.
    Thanks for making my point.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    They are a threat as long as we continue to involve ourselves in that part of the world. We leave them alone...they will leave us alone; however, we are not so yes they will be a concern.

    You have a keen sense of humor. Or else you're an Obama voter.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Hagel seems to think the threat is serious:
    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel issued a chilling assessment of the threat posed by the terrorist group the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria Thursday.


    The threat the group poses is “beyond anything we’ve seen,” Hagel told reporters at the Pentagon when asked whether the group was as dangerous as al Qaida, according to NBC News.


    “They marry an ideology with a sophistication of strategy and military prowess,” he said.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  4. #24
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Hagel is not generally held in high regard....why do you quote him now?
    Last edited by JDogger; 08-21-2014 at 08:32 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  5. #25
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    I thought Obama said they were the JV team and not worthy of making decisions based on their actions? I guess they must be like Lebron and decided to go right to the NBA.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Enough Hamas supporters here now to block traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge ...
    http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...ridge-traffic/
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    It feels like we need to do something more about ISIS than we are doing. It also feels like a trap to go back into Iraq. I wonder if we could have controlled ISIS better if we had supported Syrian Rebels in the beginning of their conflict. I know I personally want nothing to do with occupying land in Iraq. If we went in I would like it to be with the terms that we immediately hand it over to the Iraqi military. No joint operations no embedded Iraqi troops aside from translators. I see a need to seal up the Iraqi/Syrian Border as one of our first acts. We would have to follow into Syria after that also. I do enjoy having terrorist killed, but I really am undecided if this is worth it for us.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

  8. #28
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    I believe our leader tried that and the Iraqi army folder up like a pop up tent
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Hagel is not generally held in high regard....why do you quote him now?
    He IS the SOD ... so whether anyone holds him in high regard or not, his assessment of the situation can impact how the situation is dealt with. Or, OTOH, we'll find out if the POTUS, who appointed him, places any significance on Hagel's assessment?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    It feels like we need to do something more about ISIS than we are doing. It also feels like a trap to go back into Iraq.

    Could be. Maybe not everyone in Iraq was any happier with the removal of all US troops (i.e. Maliki & Obama failing to come to a SOF agreement).

    I wonder if we could have controlled ISIS better if we had supported Syrian Rebels in the beginning of their conflict.

    I truly don't believe that. We helped OBL fight the Russians in A'stan, and that didn't work out so well. Any reason that the Syrian rebels would have been much different? That same approach worked poorly in Libya; and not so great in Egypt either. Based on the fact that ISIS wasn't born overnight (it's taken some years), by the time of the Syrian rebellion, it could already have been too late? It's also possible our pre-announced withdrawal from Iraq, with no SOF agreement, accelerated the building of ISIS' power.

    I know I personally want nothing to do with occupying land in Iraq.

    I don't think that anyone "wants" or "wanted" to occupy Iraq indefinitely. However, can you imagine if we had devastated Germany and Japan and did not assist in re-building their countries? Brutal penalties on Germany after WW 1 was at least partially responsible for the rise of Hitler. So, after WW II, I think the idea was to use a different approach that could bring Germany and Japan back into the community of nations, not ostracize them from the community of nations. For the most part, that worked well.

    The big difference was that the Germans and Japanese were also weary of war, and also wanted to rebuild. Because of the many factions in the ME and the religious fanaticism that creates those factions, it would have been MUCH harder than Germany and Japan. There was some religious influence involved in the society of Japan (think kamikazes and Samurai mentality).


    If we went in I would like it to be with the terms that we immediately hand it over to the Iraqi military. No joint operations no embedded Iraqi troops aside from translators.

    Uh, isn't that what we did when we left Iraq, which resulted in what we have now? Because of all the religious factions in Iraq (and also other ME countries), that would appear easier said than done. The nature of their society has no history or cooperation of those factions. It's always been a matter of force for them.

    Our experience thus shows that allegiance to the military is rather easily superceded by tribal allegiances in the ME. Tribe trumps nation there, and in many (most?) countries in the ME. They have a different culture than the west. We need to acknowledge the differences, whether we agree with them or not. It would take a long time to make changes in those perceptions/beliefs. That appears to be why ME tyrants are as successful as they are: they understand their culture.

    Read an interesting article on how the countries of the ME were formed with lines drawn on a map, and didn't take into account the tribal/religious affiliations. The article speculated that if the national boundaries had been drawn more thoughtfully, it could have minimized the intra-national unrest we see in the countries split by Sunni v. Shia conflicts. Just hindsight? Wishful thinking?


    I see a need to seal up the Iraqi/Syrian Border as one of our first acts.

    Sealing borders does not seem to be one of our strengths ... if we could seal those borders, we should be able to seal our own southern border! The possibility of terrorists (ISIS & others) entering the US via our southern border is a very direct threat to US national security, and the powers that be refuse to acknowledge that. I'd be amazed if they could seal the Iraqi/Syrian border when we won't do that for our own border!

    Even Egypt has been unable to seal its border ... the smuggling tunnels to Gaza still exist. Though Egypt has reduced the number to about 1/3 before they started destroying such tunnels, there are still an estimate 500! left.


    We would have to follow into Syria after that also. I do enjoy having terrorist killed, but I really am undecided if this is worth it for us.
    I'm not sure that anyone has the crystal ball that will give an answer to your last sentence. I'd say it's definitely worth sealing our own borders so that these terrorists cannot bring their war here. Why is our govt so reluctant to see that connection?

    How did the Muslim protestors get away with stopping traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge? Peaceful protest does not interfere with others' rights to go about their business. At best it could be classified as mob rule (JMO). Perhaps even a "hate crime" for supporting those who advocate genocide of the Jews? Thinking back to the border issue ... are some of those insurrectionists/terrorists already here?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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