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New puppy/training

4K views 28 replies 11 participants last post by  T-Pines 
#1 ·
I'm sure this has been beaten up before but couldn't find clear answers. I have a new pup. He's 12 weeks tomorrow and I got him at 8. I've been walking him on a lead, he's sitting well, and is crazy about retrieving. I've had someone (I trust) who's family trained and ran dogs in hunt tests and trials for 20 years tell me to not be start much obedience or discipline for being disobedient until about 6 months and to let him be a pup. I'm letting him be a pup but believe the dog needs to learn these things now. The pup has gentle ben, barracuda blue, dakota roux and other accomplished dogs in the past few generations so he's high drive and full of desire to retrieve. This is my second lab and my first I steadied at about 6 or 7 months, which in my opinion may have been a little late bc the desire to retrieve had always been there. Now with my new pup, the desire seems to be stronger and honestly more impressive. I am training myself and feel i did fairly well with my first dog but I obviously have questions. I have a few good contacts to reach out to for advice and was also thinking of buying lardy's dvd. Any help and input from you folks on here would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
 
#3 ·
I'm sure this has been beaten up before but couldn't find clear answers. I have a new pup. He's 12 weeks tomorrow and I got him at 8. I've been walking him on a lead, he's sitting well, and is crazy about retrieving. I've had someone (I trust) who's family trained and ran dogs in hunt tests and trials for 20 years tell me to not be start much obedience or discipline for being disobedient until about 6 months and to let him be a pup. I'm letting him be a pup but believe the dog needs to learn these things now. The pup has gentle ben, barracuda blue, dakota roux and other accomplished dogs in the past few generations so he's high drive and full of desire to retrieve. This is my second lab and my first I steadied at about 6 or 7 months, which in my opinion may have been a little late bc the desire to retrieve had always been there. Now with my new pup, the desire seems to be stronger and honestly more impressive. I am training myself and feel i did fairly well with my first dog but I obviously have questions. I have a few good contacts to reach out to for advice and was also thinking of buying lardy's dvd. Any help and input from you folks on here would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
dbonham,

The red font changes I made to your quote highlight two significant points of correlation to Bill Hillmann's Puppy Retriever Training Program:

http://www.hawkeyemedia.net/puppy.html

The program begins with the three baseline activities you have identified, namely excitement (about chasing something), the sit command and walking on a lead.

The Hillmann program is renowned for developing steadiness at an early age without the slightest compromise to drive, desire and power for the retrieve. In fact, Hillmann teaches you how to develop the highest standard of steadiness at the same time that you are nurturing maximum drive and power in your pup. Hillmann's technique for developing sit and steadiness is called "Traffic Cop". Take a look at Hillmann's youtube channel for a generous sampling of his philosophy and methods. Video clips specifically on the Traffic Cop Technique are included.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEyAU4OEQsQAKJCildYrb9A

You might find that this approach fits your needs well.

Jim
 
#4 ·
I personally don't know Hilman's method, but have heard nothing but good about it. One thing I do know is that you can take desire and drive out of a dog but you can never put it back in!! I would never consider putting pressure on a 12week old pup to try and start steadying.
 
#5 ·
If you did learn more about Hillmann's method you would quickly discover that it emphasizes bringing out every ounce of drive and desire that the pup has to give. Never diminished. Never sacrificed. Never compromised.

If you feel that steadiness cannot be developed in a 12-week old pup without the use of pressure, then you could learn something new from Bill Hillmann.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the input everyone. I'll check out and read up on the links and info posted. I have no intentions of steadying him now or in the near future. I'm just looking ahead to maybe 5 or 6 months. I know that my i steadied my 10 yr old at 7 months around about and i thought i could have earlier due to his drive. He was steady when i worked him a lot for the first few years..i just think he would've been calmer in the boat and hunting than he was and I think that was a product of me keeping him so excited to retrieve until he was 6 or 7 months without much discipline. I know its a fine line.

He will be 12 weeks tomorrow so im gonna give him a few more days of fun sitting and come commands and then start putting more pressure on him. My 10 yr old snapped on him while I was out of the room for 7 seconds three days after he was home so i've been making sure hes a safe, happy dog for the last few weeks (pic shows stitches)...with a few inside bathroom spankings and fighting off the puppy bites. I forgot how puppies are.
Dog Dog breed Canidae Weimaraner Sporting Group
 
#9 ·
No pressure yet pls. Hillman vids are great but a bit pricey. I have his first two and really like his traffic cop approach to steadying a puppy.
Jackie Mertens also has a training DVD which is good for the really young puppies.
You can do a search on rtf and find videos of my dog Rowdy (by Pirate) doing some Mertens and Hillman drills when he was a puppy. Search under my name.
 
#11 ·
no pressure yet pls. Hillman vids are great but a bit pricey. I have his first two and really like his traffic cop approach to steadying a puppy. training a retriever puppy with bill hillmann
jackie mertens also has a training dvd which is good for the really young puppies. sound beginnings, retriever training with jackie mertens
you can do a search on rtf and find videos of my dog rowdy (by pirate) doing some mertens and hillman drills when he was a puppy. Search under my name.
i added the names of these training dvd's they are great and will answer most of your questions.......i also prefer hillmans dvd's and training guides (books) that walk you through all levels of training
 
#15 ·
First step steadiness I am simply referring to making my dog sit and retrieve on my command in the next few months sometime. In the future, when hes a 1-2 year old dog doing more advance stuff, I expect much more...and i would assume its not far off from what you are referring to. My 10 yr old used to be pretty steady (when i worked him often) in my eyes at the time. Im expecting more from this new pup. My 10 yr old is high drive and still raring to go and looking back I could have had better control of him...but he was pressure sensitive often so it was a challenge for me at times.
Im probably going to get hillmans puppy program. Is there anywhere to get it cheaper other than his site?
 
#18 ·
I had to look up paradigm shift. Unique perspective on OP.

Common Wayne
 
#19 ·
....I've had someone (I trust) who's family trained and ran dogs in hunt tests and trials for 20 years tell me to not be start much obedience or discipline for being disobedient until about 6 months and to let him be a pup.....
I'd stick with them, and what they say, vs asking a bunch of people that you've never met, and that have never seen you interact with your dog what they would do.

Methods and programs don't train dogs.
Trainers train dogs.
 
#20 ·
You start training and shaping a pup the minute you bring him home. Trick is with a pup as young as yours is the he doesn't know he's being trained. I take training a 7 week old pup as serious as I would a 3 year old maybe more they just don't know it. You cannot start too early but you certainly don't want to put any pressure or negative reinforcement on a pup that young. I actually start with formal obedience a little earlier than most with sit heel and beginning of steady around 4 months but it's up to the individual dog on how I would go about it. I certainly wouldn't wait till 6 or 7 months to start formal obedience.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Yes you should trust your friends and people you know, but...just because they have done things one way for 20+ years does not mean that is the best way. My first dog I trained myself mostly with lots of books and Lardy's DVDs, all of which were "classics" which is often another word for old. Got the Hillmann puppy DVD for our new puppy after so many recommendations, and am AMAZED at how steady AND how wild he is! The old fashioned "leave them alone for the first 6 months" is bunk. Even Lardy in his DVD complains about people who deliver him a puppy at 6 mo saying "I didn't want to wreck him so I didn't do anything". Puppies can learn so much when they are young. They are sponges and soak up whatever they are exposed to, so you might as well expose them to what you want them to know. When you start young, the training quickly becomes a habit for puppy, he doesn't have another way to behave, it becomes who he is. You can continue on with Hillmann's entire program or switch to Lardy, Smart Fetch or whatever else you want with no problems. I bought a used copy of Hillmann's first edition puppy DVD and have just resold it so I can buy the newer version. Yeah they are pricey, but you never get those first 6 months back, and the next 10-12 years are all built on that foundation. Hillmann has put some of his philosophy and general teachings out in brief videos on YouTube. Check them out first before you buy anything. I realize I sound like a real Hillmann cheerleader, I have no stake in his stuff-just like to see happy successful puppies. Here are titles of 3 clips on Bill Hillmann's You Tube channel that demonstrate his puppy theories-1)Happy Puppy, 2)Training a Labrador puppy, training a Golden Retriever puppy, the SIT and HERE command 3)Retriever puppy must be wild to retrieve before starting obedience.
 
#22 ·
Yea, while I do trust a lot of what my source tells me, I agree what the theories were 20-30 years ago may not be what they are now. I was taught 10 years ago make the pup wild and never had an issue with my first lab and am not at all with this pup. That wildness was the first lesson I was taught when training my first dog. I was taught to go by a 10 throw test where if the dog would retrieve a bumper 10 times and bring back with no loss of drive or any interference, he was about ready to start steadying. I waited longer than that with my first as I was advised.

My new pup at 12 weeks is crazy about retrieving and i have not thrown to him more than 5 times consecutive so he's got the wild part, which I'll continue for a while longer. I watched a bunch of the Hillman youtube videos last night and picked up on quite a few things. Is the second edition Hillman video advanced material good or is Lardy still the way to go?
 
#23 ·
Hillmann 2nd edition puppy is what you need now if you like Hillmann's philosophy. Hillmann's other DVDs advance from there. I'm not aware of any Lardy offerings that compare to Hillmann's puppy program.

After progressing through the puppy program, you will be in an excellent position to continue with Hillmann material, as I have chosen to do, or hit the ground running with Lardy's material, as many of his advocates have chosen to do.

Jim
 
#25 ·
Getting frustrated as I figured I would. Goose is just over 12 weeks now and has known sit since last week when I started really working with him on it. He has a lot if instinct retrieving but seems to be a little hard headed. He knows sit command but half the time I command it, he just looks at me. Been a while since I've trained a pup but it seems he should be sitting every time. He's very attentive to everything and not a dumb dog..maybe I'm venting. I did order hillmanns video and it should be here today or tomorrow but I was just looking for some encouragement before they get here
 
#26 ·
He may know what sit means, he just doesn't know he has to comply with it yet. Don't say the command if you can't help them comply with it. He's too young for much of a correction but you should be able to make him sit if you give the command. Everytime you give a command you can't enforce you are telling him compliance is optional.
 
#27 ·
There was something in the media recently saying that the secret to happiness is to have low expectations.

I think the idea is that unrealistic expectations can lead to disappointment, frustration, anger ... unhappiness. I think you have unrealistic expectations about your pup's ability to know the Sit command at 12 weeks of age after about a week of teaching Sit. You have just begun teaching Sit. You have a long way to go before your pup can possibly "know" this command to the standard of "he should be sitting every time".

Fortunately, the Hillmann Puppy DVD will provide an extensive and thorough explanation of the process of teaching your pup to sit and to be steady. Hillmann also is very clear about the need to exclude anger and frustration from your relationship with your dog ... and he gives you the philosophy, principles and methods to help you do that.

Jim
 
#28 ·
I try to enforce the whatever command I give him regardless if we are in the yard actually working or if I'm in the kitchen and say sit. I haven't applied any correction, just a lot of repetition and praise when he does well.

And I am definitely guilty of unrealistic expectations at times so I am trying very hard to be patient which is a tough task as well. I know I have to not expect a puppy to pick stuff up immediately and remember every thing right off the bat. Hopefully hillmanns video will be here soon for some guidance.
 
#29 ·
Hopefully hillmanns video will be here soon for some guidance.
I'll give you a little preview ... with regard to the Sit command ... he should be sitting every time!

But not in the sense that he is responsible for compliance in any and all situations where you command "Sit". No, absolutely not!

He should be sitting every time because you should only command him to "Sit" when you have carefully and purposefully set him up to succeed. And then you praise and reinforce; with lots of repetition, as you already know.

As the trainer, you are the choreographer of his outcomes. Your job is to create successful repetitions. If your pup fails to comply, it is the trainer's mistake, not the pup's mistake.

You're going to have fun! More fun than you are having already.

Jim
 
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