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Thread: Obama's Iraqi Mission Impossible

  1. #11
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    .44....

    I see where you are going with this and agree with the need to get folks going when they are young. I think a system like this is needed but it has to be directly linked to the welfare program's we have....you have to link work to welfare, eventually taking all welfare away....

    I think the fundamental problem is that our politician's have created generations of citizens with 'entitlement mentalities' who believe that no matter what they do, 'big brother' (Fed Gov) is entitled to take care of them. Free food, free health care, free college, plus a phone and a check for incidentals. This has been going on since President Johnson's 'Great Society'! At least 3 generations of welfare babies.

    We have to 'wean' the babies from the Government teat! That is the first step, it would require and incentive based program, where the only way you can get your goodies is work for them, the more you work the more you get, up to a point. In time you get more earnings from work than you can get from the Gov.

  2. #12
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    I am torn between mngundog and Magnum options but reject Swamp's aversion to re-instating the draft. I have lived , worked and traveled thru 45 US states and do not need a map to do it. Being of boomer background I have always being curious as to what constitutes being an American having defended our country abroad under difficult situations. Does culture, opportunity , indoctrination (formal education), geographic locality or something else. Having substantial members of my extended family serving/ed in the military , some drafted and others joined willingly , I still think that it was thru this experience that most men came to have a BONDING experience which led to community involvement/betterment. One of my buds did special work in South America, was decorated , came back and decided VietNam was wrong , was a member of " Cattonsville 9" , MD civic action/arrest/trial and three years in prison (Lewisburg , PA) w/ the Berrigan brothers due to his political/religious views.

    Talk is cheap and maybe we can all contribute in different ways but I have become disillusioned w/all the "me people" who want but contribute little. I think it is unfair that females get a free ride and only select males have to defend our national interests -- the draft would call into question everyones' responsibilities/obligations and temper foolhardy endeavors.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by .44 magnum View Post
    In reality these types of programs would pay for themselves long term. Kids would start focusing once in high school their options as to their required service.

    The only way our country will ever get on the same page is learning to work together at a young age. Everything in life has a price.

    we can continue to be a divided country, or we can start to work together... it is not about politics, but of life. We have to start seeing each other as equals no matter if rich or poor .

    One other benefit would be those wishing to illegally enter our country would also have to work for free for two years as a public servant. After completion they could go to the top of the list to become citizens.

    Which makes our country better... Obama Care or mandatory public service? In reality heath care should have no price... no fees or insurance premiums. We did a poor job putting together a plan to take care of everyone regardless of income. Obama care needs to be scrapped pronto. it only is going to make windfall profits for insurance companies and the big pharmecuticals.
    I guess I will never see eye to eye with you large government types, I see it as the cause of the problem not a solution. To answer your question neither ObamaCare nor mandated public service would make our Country better, a free market system would.

  4. #14
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    We need small government, our government is 1000x to big already and you are suggesting an asinine amount of increased intrusion, amazing.
    This is certainly true that it would make the gov't larger. Perhaps there is a way to get people more involved in the "community" at a younger age. Mandatory volunteer hours for graduation from HS and College. Not necessarily to any gov't agency but charities, soup kitchens, park maintenance, or if someone chooses a gov't agency. Draft to the military is a horribly option for many reasons.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    This is certainly true that it would make the gov't larger. Perhaps there is a way to get people more involved in the "community" at a younger age. Mandatory volunteer hours for graduation from HS and College. Not necessarily to any gov't agency but charities, soup kitchens, park maintenance, or if someone chooses a gov't agency. Draft to the military is a horribly option for many reasons.
    I am a firm believer in volunteering.

  6. #16
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    My issue with using a 'draft' is that you down grade the quality of the men and women serving. Granted that most who served via the draft, learned a new perspective regarding service to our country, and many were great soldiers.. But, the quality of the men and women actually doing the work, was not as high as it is now....it is only logical that people who willingly join up will work harder and have better overall effort than someone who is forced to serve....

    Guys this is just common since. I am not against the draft for any reason than it does not give us the best we can have in service. If we go into a large scale war where we do not have enough volunteers, then obviously, I would support a draft.

  7. #17
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Just as an aside, I believe that at the last winging, the Commodore was saying that there is a one year waiting list to join the marines.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

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  8. #18
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Just as an aside, I believe that at the last winging, the Commodore was saying that there is a one year waiting list to join the marines.
    Whose the Commodore? He was the Commandant when I worked for him
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  9. #19
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    Whose the Commodore? He was the Commandant when I worked for him

    The Commodore is, in this case, the commanding officer of Training Air Wing 4, the command that trains the navy and marine pilots who fly propeller aircraft (primarily the P3-Orion, C-130 Herc, and the V-22 Osprey).

    IN today's Navy, Commodore is an honorific, not a rank. Here is more (bolded pertains to the local Commodore):

    The "title" of commodore continues to be used in the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard for those senior captains in command of organizations consisting of groups of ships or submarines organized into squadrons; air wings or air groups of multiple aviation squadrons other than carrier air wings (the latter whose commanders still use the title "CAG"); explosive ordnance disposal (EOD), mine warfare and special warfare (SEAL) groups; and construction battalion (SeaBee) regiments. Although not flag officers, modern day commodores in the U.S. Navy rate a blue and white command pennant, also known as a broad pennant, that is normally flown at their headquarters facilities ashore or from ships that they are embarked aboard when they are the senior officer present afloat (SOPA).
    Last edited by HPL; 08-25-2014 at 01:48 PM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  10. #20
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    The Commodore is the commanding officer of Training Air Wing 4, the command that trains the navy and marine pilots who fly propeller aircraft (primarily the P3-Orion, C-130 Herc, and the V-22 Osprey).
    Ah, never had to be part of the Air Wing or reserves so that explains it.
    ________________________________
    Dan Cram
    No longer live in Iowa but I have a new Bay Dog!!

    Skywatcher Salem Orchard Hard "Cider"

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