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Everyone knows that AKC is the Gold Standard for Hunt Tests..?

10K views 46 replies 26 participants last post by  dgowder 
#1 ·
I'm aware that everyone has their favorite brands for one reason or the other...I do too.
Maybe that's all there is to the statement.

But...why would someone say that? (I saw it in a RFT thread)....so I didn't make it up.
Is it a carry over from the fact that the AKC Field Trials are so difficult to gain a title.
Are AKC Ht's more demanding?
I looked at the rules and the two (UKC / AKC) dont seem to be that far apart....
I could be wrong, given my experience.
D.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Retrievers and the titles you can achieve with them are like TV's. Do you want the plain model that just gets the job done? Or the one that takes up the whole wall and blows you away when you walk into the room? In dogs it takes money and time. It's up to you on how much you want to invest.
It's up to each as well which "channel" they prefer. Some like drama. I like action adventure. Some truly should just stick to cartoons.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Registry is everything and while people will argue about it, most don't care much about UKC when it comes to buying or breeding. Don't shoot the messenger, this is just the truth.

Yes. Without a doubt, hands down.
It has long be accepted by most that in order of difficulty;

started < junior < seasoned < senior < finished < master < Grand < MN The Grand and the MN are much closer than the other levels are in difficulty.

I will stand by that 9 times out of 10.
As far as NAHRA, not enough viable programs so most people have never seen one. I am not knocking HRC or NAHRA, just answering the OP's question. Enjoy whatever you run.
 
#6 ·
I believe Julie has the answer, follow the money (or numbers).
 
#7 ·
I'm aware that everyone has their favorite brands for one reason or the other...I do too.
Maybe that's all there is to the statement.

But...why would someone say that? (I saw it in a RFT thread)....so I didn't make it up.
Is it a carry over from the fact that the AKC Field Trials are so difficult to gain a title.
Are AKC Ht's more demanding?
I looked at the rules and the two (UKC / AKC) dont seem to be that far apart....
I could be wrong, given my experience.
D.
Yes. Without a doubt, hands down.
 
#10 ·
What would a "Gold standard " be for hunt tests?

Evan
 
#12 ·
lol,

The voice of reason. Is that even allowed? ;)
 
This post has been deleted
#15 ·
True and not exclusive to HRC. I hear all the time that weekend Master is getting harder because of the MN.
 
#23 ·

A little photoshop never hurt anything. LOL
 
#25 ·
The AKC long resisted licensing hunt tests. When they (AKC tests) started, my client, with a 36 point derby dog that I had already won 2 Quals with, was curious if he might enjoy running the new sport. She titled in consecutive scores. He said he thought it was too easy for him to enjoy, so he ran a few more FTs and retired her to hunt ducks. He just lost interest in pursuing sports with both dogs.

Evan
 
#27 ·
So you titled this dog, or your client?
 
#28 ·
So you titled this dog, or your client?
You're really obsessed with this aren't you? I put 3 scores on her, and he got the rest. I did all her training and most handling, including all other points and placements. One exception is that he got an Amateur JAM before retiring her. And what is your assessment of what a gold standard would be for hunt tests?

Evan
 
#29 ·
No problem. At that time they were doing scenting tests in Master, but soon dropped them. They also clung tightly to the 100 yard limit. You can imagine the tests varied quite a bit for a long time. After his dog was doing all age work it just didn't capture his imagination.

Evan
 
#30 ·
I am not sure you can have a gold standard since that is what everything should be judged against. No HT truly simulates a hunt and that is an objective they all claim. I am not sure a gold standard is possible even with more realistic hunting situations, because there are so many different types of hunting.
If you ask me which venue has the standards that most closely fit what I am looking for in a hunting retriever I would say AKC, but that is just me. If you asked me 15 years ago I would have said HRC.
 
#31 ·
I agree with all of that 100%. That's why I thought this thread might yield some opinions beyond "I like AKC by far" or "HRC is the gold standard". I just wonder when someone asks a question like that, what vision are the readers getting? How would you determine what that is? I don't really know if there is any way of establishing one.

Evan
 
#35 · (Edited)
Hmm I've heard such comments from different people in almost every game. It's not just AKC is the gold standard, or UKC or NAHRA or FT. It's usually spouted by people who only run a particular venue and feel the need to have a "mine's bigger than your's" argument. They usually have no idea what they are talking about, don't seem to care that they have no idea what they are talking about, love to make generalization on things they have no idea about and have never stepped off their high horse to even try. Perhaps because talking down other venues makes them appear to be somewhat bigger. Completely pointless to listen to this type, completely pointless to argue with them as well. The knowledgeable and successful people in any sport. Knows that talent, can be found in any venue, and knows better than to talk down other venues that they have no experience with. A successful person with an excellent dog in any venue has accomplishments that speak for themselves, they have no need to prove themselves to others, nor make themselves bigger. They don't have the time to devote to such petty considerations. They're usually training and running their dogs, earning more accomplishments.

Besides a dog that is saving lives in IRAQ, finding victims in collapsed buildings, helping a handicap person live life better, is way more accomplished than any dog playing games; and these dogs don't need gold standard titles & recognition for it.
 
#36 ·
Few thoughts.

1. Today's HT's are nowhere close to what they were 20+ years ago. If you haven't ran in the past 2 years, you have no way to compare them
2. AKC tests put more focus on the dog work and the standard is higher. If by gold standard you are referring to overall dog abilities and performance, then AKC would be higher
3. HRC sets the gold standard in ribbons. They are much more colorful, larger, easier to get, and the game is much more fun.

/Paul
 
#38 · (Edited)
I have never seen an AFC run an HRC hunt test. I have seen QAA dogs bomb a master test in a big way. That is no rap on FT dogs at ALL. They just overran a series of marks shorter than they saw as puppies. I think everyone would pretty much agree "with very very minimal training on HT concepts an AFC could go to a HT and breeze through the test."
 
#40 ·
Nope.....I've never competed in either but the club near me offers both kinds of competition.
I just wondered if the tasks are not the same...which is harder....because if you train for one...do the tasks overlap...and therefore I could go to both and expect to win or place....or should I shoot for only competing in one or the other.
Just a question.
Now, I have learned already that the AKC Field Trials are an entirely different matter.
I think I'm correct that each dog competes against other dogs at doing the same tasks.....so they are some really well trained dogs.
 
#41 ·
If you truly want to know why the person who wrote that did so, why don't you go directly to that person and ask?

The rest is just speculation from others who didn't write it.

There is no "gold standard" for the retriever performance venues. There are lots of choices.

Just go check some out and have fun!
 
#42 ·
I hesitated in responding since I didn't know what "gold standard" meant in this context. Somebody replied that by gold standard they might be talking about seeing it on the pedigree, that could be true since we mostly look at AKC pedigrees when we are contemplating a pup out of such and such breeding. As to which is harder, they are different. An AKC style MH might have a problem with the NAHRA quartering, trailing and sit to flush. A NAHRA or HRC dog might not be as steady in the face of a flyer with the handler not being able to say a peep as the birds go down. Train a little on these things and I think both style dog would be fine in another venue.
 
#43 ·
Every venue has it's pitfalls. I trained for a few years with some HRC folks. The work looked very simplistic for my all-age trained dogs. One a 7 year old, the other a six year old. We had run many master tests over the years and titled six or seven including a couple of passes on a FC/AFC and four passes on another AFC. Back to HRC, was told by the group my dogs could easily pass the finished test and should enter them. After a few weeks of training they set up four wingers and wanted to know if I wanted singles, said shoot the quad. My 7 year old over ran each mark by probably 50 to 100 yards and would have kept going if I had not did a couple of whistle stops. Hmm! those silent throws needed some work. I again with a big ego, was told to enter a finished test. They forgot to say they do "hot blinds", geeze before I knew it my dog got the hot blind. Oh , forgot to load the gun, forgot to make it "open and safe". Now the group saw I was serious and began to teach me how to swing the gun, follow the arc for the silent throws, shooting from the line. I passed the next finished and with the HRC group helped me put two HRCH titles on two dogs, both AKC Master Hunters. It wasn't all bad for this rookie, because my trial trained dogs lined most of the blinds, land and water, so that was fruitful for me. The last finished test I ran, my dog put on the ugliest triple with hunts I had ever seen, and I was happy. One of the guys told me that was terrible. and why was I happy? I responded it was the first triple I had run at a test where he hunted all three birds and didn't overrun! Sometimes it aint all about the training, it's about the teamwork with you and the dog. That's my HRC story , great folks, serious dog people and hunters all or mostly all. The moral of the story , each venue is different, and you can't compare apples and oranges,but, you can enjoy your dog sport.
 
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