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Entry Express Changes

52K views 214 replies 71 participants last post by  Paula Richard 
#1 · (Edited)
Here again is a summary of the EE changes that will soon be implemented primarily to accommodate the changing dynamic of the master stake since the advent of the "limited" master, the changed MN qualifications and the MNH title.

1) Events with limited stakes will have a standard opening, on Wednesday nearest to 3 weeks prior to an event start. Opening time will be standardized at 8PM CT.
2) Events with limited stakes will have a published, visible wait list capability with waitlisted dogs automatically receiving entry in the order waitlisted when a scratch prior to closing occurs.
3) Scratches will be handled online just as entry occurred, 24/7 prior to event close. This feature will be available to all events (FT & HT) and entries, not just those with limited master stakes.
4) When clubs set up an event with a limited stake, a 24 hour period will be observed at entry opening where only a limited number (set by AKC at 15% of master limit set) of club workers can achieve entry. This process will be controlled by the club admin with unique codes supplied by EE specific to the limited stake. After the initial 24 hours, entries will be open to the general public & any unused codes will be cancelled.

These changes have been developed and are currently being tested by support staff and some club administrators. Implementation should occur with a few weeks unless major issues are identified during testing.

Also to correct another misunderstanding of EE features, the now-suspended VIP program was only an alternate payment system enacted, targeted at high volume users to avoid credit card fees & reduce overall operating costs at EE (a benefit for all users). The VIP program provided NO entry advantages to those using the program, contrary to some claims. This is evident from the fact that since the VIP program was suspended limited master stakes are still filling up within minutes & pros are still getting a large share of the entries. Also the "one-click" notion is not correct for VIP users or anyone else. VIP users did see one less screen than credit card users but through your browser choice you control whether your credit card information is auto-loaded. Further if your credit card info is auto-loaded, it is not possible for a VIP users with more than 8 dogs to achieve entry faster than a non-VIP user. We have tested this extensively, it just cannot happen if user capabilities are eliminated from the consideration. If your finger dexterity is excellent, you will always have an advantage over those with less familiarity with the entry process & poor dexterity. Multiple entries are aided by another feature available to EVERYONE. It enables a multi-dog user to choose the dogs to be entered from his dog list & complete the entry process as one payment transaction for the total of entries. This one transaction feature helps control transaction fees charged by the credit card processor & is a major convenience to any multi-dog users.

EE needs an alternate entry payment capability to reduce & control the single largest cost EE faces in its operations - credit card fees. EE is exploring adding an electronic check process, that would enable any users to pay by check, as an alternate choice to a credit or debit card. While there is still a fee, it is less than using a credit card. EE is also considering a plan to transfer to clubs the transaction fees that EE cannot control (those fees charged by the credit card processors & deducted before EE even sees the entry fees paid). If & when this takes place, you will likely see, for example, an $80 entry fee become a $82.40 entry fee on the EE website to provide the clubs the additional funds to pay the fees transferred.

EE is also working with the Retriever News (and the Master National Club indirectly) to make available to enthusiasts an improved and wide range of performance history and statistics capabilities. As envisioned, this will enable enthusiasts to make better informed breeding and puppy buying decisions, help users keep up with points and passes in a near-real time environment and provide a much improved system search capability.

Entry Express wants the same things you want as a club and an individual user - a convenient, low cost means to enter and manage events.
 
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#61 ·
I just looked at a few hunting test premiums on EE. None of them say anything about a scratch fee. The AKC rules say, "Any service fee imposed by the online entry service must be clearly stated in the premium list. All online entry instructions should be clearly written."

Is the idea of a scratch fee new, or something that has always been charged by EE and I just never noticed?

The AKC Hunting test rules entry fees for bitches in are to be fully refunded and says nothing about whether these things happened before or after the closing date. It seems to me that EE would not be in compliance of AKC rules if they charge a scratch fee to owners of bitches in season. The rules say, "Bitches in season shall not be eligible for entry in any Hunting Test and shall not be allowed on the grounds. Entry fees paid for a bitch withdrawn because of coming in season or for a dog withdrawn because of an injury or illness, or for a dog that dies, shall be refunded in full by the test-giving club. "
 
#65 ·
It's pretty simple. Before the current changes, when you scratched before the close, you forfeit the $4.50 you've already paid when you entered the event in the first place. That's being referred by some as the "scratch fee" before the close. EE has kept that to cover the CC fees. Doesn't matter why the dog was scratched.

NOW, with the new changes, for limited MH ONLY, if you scratch before the close, there will be a $25 fee deducted from your refunded entry fee.

Any other event scratch BEFORE the close, ie, through EE, will be a $10 fee deducted from your entry refund. This is automated now, just like entering an event is, thus the increased fee for scratching.

If you scratch after the event closes, it's up to the club what to charge, if there is no vet excuse.

There are no additional fees to enter an event, with the new changes, UNLESS YOU SCRATCH before the close, or you want to be on the automated wait list, which is $10.
 
#72 ·
I guess I am wondering for the need for the $25 fine for cancelling before closing. Seems pretty steep.

I know I cancelled a couple of tests before closing for personal reasons last year and the spots were taken so no loss in entries. I am willing to pay the fees for CC use but $25?
 
#73 ·
I don't generally like the idea of using monetary penalties OR incentives to solve the problem of the overwhelming MH entries. To some folks, $25 bucks is nothing. To others, it's something to consider.

That said, if there are some who make a habit of entering ... without a real commitment to running ... and then scratch later, and this would make them think twice, then I'm all for it.

JMO

JS
 
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#74 ·
Fixed income is it that you can say? I tend to follow tests I might be interested in next year etc and I find very few scratches, sometime one or two per test, often none.

We do love to travel and test, having done so from the TX Gulf Coast to the Canadian border to the Atlantic seaboard. Being a pessimist I am seeing a drop of tests in the future, the sport seems to be imploding. I know smart folks are working on it and I hope to be wrong for sure.
 
#78 ·
Is the new pre-close scratch fee really that big of a deal? The HT aren't going to open any sooner than 30 days pre-test now with the new policy. If you don't know your schedule within 30 days, I guess you have to take the chance of entering and maybe eating a scratch fee, or not.

Kinda mind boggling, now that after all the complaining about MH limits, most of the problems are trying to be addressed and the griping continues. We are getting shortened, standardized opening date/time, we are getting reserved worker spots, we are getting an automated scratch ability and an automated wait list. All the things people, including myself, were asking to be fixed. Huh. Not everyone is going to get in that wants in, that's just the nature of the beast, but we're getting a bit more level playing field as far as getting entered in the first place.
 
#80 ·
Not to mention that we have not touched the real problem ... "not enough slots for the dogs wanting in".

There will be just as many dogs shut out after this take affect as there have been. Just different names.

JS
 
#79 ·
I agree Kim , beside the fact that EE is a BUSINESS, businesses are allowed to make money .
 
#83 ·
^^^^This...but maybe be are being overrun with Obama supporters...... 😜
 
#84 ·
My thanks to Entry Express for making these changes! IMHO it is a step in the right direction.

I would also like to publicly thank Tara. On a day that I am certain was challenging with all the new announced changes she was cheerful, courteous, professional and competent. She quickly handled my scratch due to a bitch in season and it was quickly filled. Exactly what I have come to expect!

Thanks again!!!
Mark D. Land
 
#85 ·
Simple math. There were not enough spots before and this is not creating any new spots. It just helps manage the number that are out there so some different folks may have a chance to enter or enter easier than before. Limited entry is limited. Thank you EE for doing what you can.
 
#86 ·
I'd disagree and venture to say... the artificial demand being generated by current MN qualifying guidelines is outstripping the supply and causing the imbalance.
EE has stepped up in a responsible and honorable way while MN is still sitting on the sidelines and only they know why. Too bad many out there would like to hear from MN and perhaps AKC. Kudos to EE !
 
#87 ·
When gas prices were very high, we all just to the prices and didn’t have a choice, because we knew that now that what we took for granted.
We changed our behaviors since then and something that was so trivial to us made us think and stop what is important to us in our daily lives within our means.
We love our dogs, but we also have what is important to our well being in our standard of living.

Deduce the demand......:)
 
#92 ·
I think everyone will just need to see how this all pans out, EE stepped up to the plate, took everyone's input, formulated a plan and took action...to me that's a positive thing. It's just like the initial change to allow limited master tests, it was a good thing for many, but the side effects were unknown and we ended up where we are now. Let's see how these EE changes work...at minimum it's a plan that was put into action vs. lip service.

Thanks David for taking the time to answer all the questions over and over again...

p.s. I think it's a no win situation for EE - damned if they do, damned if they don't....personally I like the fact that they did something
 
#115 ·
10,000 agree , I fully appreciate all the changes being made by EE and wish people would wait a bit after the changes are implemented to see how it works. AKC and RHTAC need to come up with the other changes
 
#98 ·
I don't expect a club to return an entry fee after the close without a valid vet letter. I wouldn't ask and wouldn't be mad if they didn't. My choice to scratch, why should the club eat it, consider it a donation if nothing else.
 
#105 ·
Coming from other AKC dog sports, I didn't know scratching after closing was even an option in hunt tests. In obedience and agility, the ONLY way you get any money back after after closing (minus an optional fee held back from club) is if you have a bitch in heat. It doesn't matter what other reason you have, dog injured, died even, no money back after closing. Certainly nothing back if you just decide you don't feel like going. You'd think AKC would have more similar rules among their different sports.
 
#106 ·
A big kudos to EE for addessing what they could here. They can't make the AKC change its rules but have worked within what they have.

Two questions: (1) Will a person be able to know their position on the wait list? (2) Are the names on the waitlist available to the Secretary, or to anyone other than EE?
 
#107 · (Edited)
1) Yes, the wait list will be visible from the viewed entries page just below those who are entered & they will be listed in the order of priority for entry. 2) Since the names are visible on the EE viewed entries page, anyone can see them. I'm not sure what value that would be to the club secretary. With an automated movement from the waitlist to the entered list, the events should close full. And under AKC rules, once entries close, no additional entries can be accepted for a lot of reasons.

Relative to post #105, it is not AKC rules that govern why some clubs give refunds after the close (except in the cases of bitch in heat or injury), it is a benevolent club secretary or club in general that is being gracious. Clubs do not have to give refunds for scratches after the close except in the circumstances noted - and many don't or if they do generally withhold expenses related to the entry (ducks come to mind).
 
#109 ·
I guess I misunderstood. I thought I read where we could set up our CC informaiton in EE and then when we enter an event, it would already be populated.

Did I miss it? I emailed the EE email and asked the question and they said it could not be done. Maybe it's a change coming?

Love the changes thanks for improving opportunities.
 
#110 ·
EE doesn't control whether your cc information can be populated. Some browsers do have features where you can have the browser save your cc data to auto-fill. EE will not ever save your cc data to autofill, it is a security risk to you & to EE that would impose a liability upon EE that we do not want now or in the future.
 
#121 ·
Actually unique codes generated by the system once the event closes. The number of codes will depend upon the limit selected by the club, probably 10-15-20% of the limit selected. I'm guessing clubs won't be able to select that percentage. From our perspective, we are looking to the AKC to provide guidelines & I believe they will based upon RHTAC recommendations.

Glad Sexy is doing well. Does she have 2 or 3 MN passes? Miss her the most during duck season, she was an awesome dog on a duck hunt, small enough for my slip boat, for the blind, quiet and sat still while really watching the ducks so it made it easy on retrieves.
 
#119 ·
I think I understand, please confirm. There will be a $25 scratch fee prior to the close period? Correct?
What if my dog qualified for the Master National and I am trying to free up a spot for someone else to get qualified?
In this instance, it seems like the fee is penalizing me for trying to do the right thing.
 
#120 ·
I think I understand, please confirm. There will be a $25 scratch fee prior to the close period? Correct? What if my dog qualified for the Master National and I am trying to free up a spot for someone else to get qualified?
In this instance, it seems like the fee is penalizing me for trying to do the right thing.
You could wait until someone you know is the next person on the waitlist and ask them if they'd like to cover your fee.
 
#122 ·
Lots of reason to not allow entries after the close. What comes to mind is difficulty tracking an un-registered dog's performance in that event plus the increased ability to record incorrect dog/handler information - this has been an intentional infraction by some during past paper entry days.
 
#126 ·
She is great. Has 3 straight National passes, and in the Hall of Fame. Already qualified for this year in Cheraw. She looks great..

Did not get to hunt this year, but took her out to Arkansas last year. Our last day, we knocked a bunch of birds down, and a cripple sailed all the way over to the other side of the rice field. We picked up the short bird's, guide said we would get the cripple on the way out. I said no, Sexy can get it. Took about 3 whistles, 250+ yard's, into a pretty strong crosswind. Guide was pretty pleased. Her puppies are doing great too, I think Ray has 2 of t hem.
 
#128 ·
Another question David. Say I have 5 dog's that I am trying to enter into a limited Master, and when I enter there is only enough room for 2 or 3. What happens to my other dog's? Basically I only want to get in, if I get ALL my dog's in, because if not, there could be a test a little further that I can get them ALL in.
 
#139 ·
Handler in Training;1300006 I was hoping some people that have been HT secretary and chairmen were going to step up and acknowledge how much work ALREADY has to take place. Senseless to add a bunch more work for the possibility of 1-2 spots getting filled or not.[/QUOTE said:
Actually, that was one of my questions for HT secretaries...my idea would cause the HT secretary to have to notify the "waiting list" people that they are in and/or scratch those who don't get in and send them an approriate check. Is this additional work worth filling the flights? Apparently, your answer is no...I respect that. I would like to hear from others.

the big picture is being addressed by EE as best they can. Heck said:
I wasn't trying to be an "organizational whix kid". I was merely engaging in "discussion"...after all, isn't that what this forum is for? Again...for discussion purposes...on could say that the big picture is NOT being addressed. Many who have posted on this subject agree that the "big picture" is too many dogs and two few openings.

I think that having a set opening date/time is a GREAT idea...it gives everyone an equal chance to participate in the free-for all and eliminates the problem where everyone but me knows when a HT is opening. I also think it encourages people to give more thought to their entries. Unfortunately, once you've entered, there is no incentive to scratch before the close and there is no way to fill those scratches.

David mentioned in one of his early post the expense involved in software changes and handing the fees for scratches and waiting lists The idea that I am interested in "discussing" eliminates the need for those changes and it doesn't require any changes in the AKC rules...at least that's MY take on it. It does require extra work on the part of the HT secretary.

That's what I'd like todiscuss Am I not understanding the new EE proposal. Am I wrong in my assumption that rules won't have to be changed? Is the extra work the local people will have to do worth the trouble to insure a full test?
 
#140 ·
Am I wrong in my assumption that rules won't have to be changed? Is the extra work the local people will have to do worth the trouble to insure a full test?
Unfortunately, your are wrong that your proposal doesn't require rule changes. Either the extra 10 dogs are entered after the close or before. If entered before the close, then the limits that triggers a required split must be changed. If entered after then that rule needs to be changed. One way or another a rule needs to be changed.
 
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